As I said I have no objections. I would like to have more specific text but I could live with the current version. And I liked the text that Dave Farmer suggested. It is simple enough but very clear in how we need to treat other people. Best regards, as On Mon, Dec 9, 2013 at 8:53 PM, Jari Arkko <jari.arkko@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Arturo, > >> I am not advocating (or was) to add the anti-harassment policy here >> (in fact I agree that it should not be here). I was advocating to add >> some text that says that sexual, racial or other types of harassment >> are not welcome in the IETF. So far the code has 4 mayor bullet >> points: >> >> 1. IETF participants extend respect and courtesy to their colleagues >> at all times. >> >> 2. IETF participants have impersonal discussions. >> >> >> 3. IETF participants devise solutions for the Internet that meet the >> needs of diverse technical and operational environments. >> >> 4. Individuals are prepared to contribute to the ongoing work of the >> group. >> >> IMHO the issue of harassment is not addressed here and it should be. >> We do not need the whole policy here, just simple text. > > Understood. > >> It may even >> possible to link the the BCP on the anti-harassment policy. It would >> create a dependency, but I think it is worth, otherwise the code seems >> incomplete to me. > > We will not have a BCP on anti-harassment this year, while this document is otherwise ready (I think). If we add a reference, we can't publish the RFC until the reference is also an RFC. > >> Nevertheless if you think that it is not a good idea, I can live with it. > > Thanks. > > FWIW, I'd have no problem with doing something like what Dave Farber suggested: > >> In general I agree with keeping the particular issue of harassment out of the draft. However, there are some concepts in the Anti-Harassment Policy that may be worthy of including. I believe the first paragraph of the policy is an excellent summary of what the guidelines intend to achieve. >> >> IETF meetings, virtual meetings, and mailing lists are intended for >> professional collaboration and networking. The IETF strives to >> create and maintain an environment in which people of many different >> backgrounds are treated with dignity, decency, and respect. Those >> who participate in the IETF are expected to behave according to >> professional standards and demonstrate appropriate workplace >> behavior. >> >> I'm not suggesting you simply insert that text, but maybe ensure all of the ideas or concepts are embodied within the draft. In particular I'd like to see the concepts of "professional standards" and/or "workplace behavior" more directly included. > > And obviously I support the ideas above at 110%. > > But my larger point was that we'll have to fine-tune the anti-harassment text anyway to make it a BCP, and in accordance with good principles of management and engineering, not tying things together unless you have to makes progress faster. > > In other words, I have no strong resistance about doing something abstract/high level along the lines above. I just think it would be faster and more efficient to get this document out of the door, and let IESG and community discuss the anti-harassment text separately. > > Jari >