----- Original Message ----- From: "Tim Bray" <tbray@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: <ned+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Cc: "Måns Nilsson" <mansaxel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; "Ned Freed" <ned.freed@xxxxxxxxxxx>; "IETF-Discussion Discussion" <ietf@xxxxxxxx>; "Eric Burger" <eburger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 5:45 PM On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 8:54 AM, <ned+ietf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > The trust that the > > Government(s) will only tap the traffic of those that are a grave concern > > to their security interests has completely vanished. > > That doesn't trump the need for access to our materials to be as open as > possible. > Hmm, what does “open” mean? Maximally accessible technologically, or maximally accessible without any worry about who might be watching? The answer isn’t obvious at all. <tp> To me it is obvious, that it is technological access that comes first e.g. RFC in plain text, e-mails in plain text, e-mails kept short, unrestricted access to the mailing lists and to the mail archives, basic protocols (FTP, SMTP) and so on. Our Introduction says "The IETF is completely open to newcomers." Well, open to those who have an adequate level of technology and that we should keep as low as is practicable. Demand something more - TLS, CMS, IMAP etc - and you will start to cut people off from our work. Keeping what you are doing hidden, from your boss, the police, the government, your family etc, that comes second. Tom Petch This is a discussion that needs to happen at much greater length and depth, and outside not just inside the IETF community. But, FYI, there are a substantial number of people who feel like the sane response to pervasive surveillance is pervasive encryption. And if you encrypt “only the controversial stuff”, you make encryption itself controversial, and its use a red flag for those currently attacking the Internet. So; I don’t think I’m insane, or even unreasonably paranoid, but I do think it would be a very good thing, and would maximize the general usefulness of our resources, if we switched all public-facing IETF resources to HTTPS-only. I’m perfectly aware that there are those who disagree. -T > > Ned >