Hi Linda, You can click the web page and start number of cisco CSR or juniper vSRX instances to create an arbitrary virtual networks. Is this SDN or just nice web based front end which you call SDN ? If I start the same network with few lines of python or perl script is this still SDN or not any longer ? Likewise I can easily provision BGP sessions and bunch of services running on hardware routers by software .. in fact this is already the case in vast majority of networks. It is therefor SDN too isn't it ? Best, R. On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 8:40 PM, Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > It is true that SDN depends on automation. > > IMHO, "Automation" is a much bigger area than SDN. > > When you look at Amazon EC2 graphic interface, you can click X number of VMs, and create any kind of virtual networks among them, along with a set of service functions to dictate inter-subnet communication. That is a "Software defined network". > > Linda > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: George, Wes [mailto:wesley.george@xxxxxxxxxxx] >> Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2013 9:18 AM >> To: Linda Dunbar; IETF Discussion >> Subject: RE: [Sdn] FW: Last Call: <draft-sin-sdnrg-sdn-approach-04.txt> >> (Software-Defined Networking: A Perspective From Within A Service >> Provider) to Informational RFC >> >> > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf >> Of >> > Linda Dunbar >> >> > >> > - We all understand the challenges of "Full Automation". However, the >> > SDN and Full automation are two separate angles to Carrier networks. >> I >> > find the Section 4.1 "Implications of full automation" actually de- >> > rails the focus of the draft on SDN. >> >> [WEG] I strongly disagree. First, "we all understand..." is an >> overgeneralization, and a dangerous and grossly inaccurate one at that. >> Lots of SDN vendors have repeatedly demonstrated to me how little they >> actually understand about this problem. It's not a new problem by any >> means, but there's a really significant amount of hand-waving going on >> around the complexities of actually doing what they're saying is >> possible through the "magic" of SDN, when few have demonstrated how the >> abstract concept "SDN" actually makes solving this problem easier. The >> reality is that SDN and automation are inextricably linked. The next to >> last sentence in section 2.3 reinforces this, and I believe that 4.1 is >> absolutely appropriate for this draft. A truly software-defined network >> is an automated one, and any discussion of an operator's perspective on >> SDN is going to need to consider the same challenges that have been >> present in prior attempts to better automate network management, >> provisioning, and control. There are two models for managing a network >> like this, one that is fully automated, meaning that it is quite a lot >> more complex and susceptible to "ghost in the machine" problems, the >> other which has a human making most of the important decisions and then >> dictating those to the network. Even the latter model requires a >> significant amount of automation to execute what the human has decided >> should be done. >> The things covered in section 4.1 mirrors a lot of the discussion that >> I have had both internally and with other operators around the >> challenges of separating the hype of SDN from the actual benefit, and >> in selling this model to operations folks who are skeptical of ceding >> control to a set of computer logic. >> >> Wes George >> >> This E-mail and any of its attachments may contain Time Warner Cable >> proprietary information, which is privileged, confidential, or subject >> to copyright belonging to Time Warner Cable. This E-mail is intended >> solely for the use of the individual or entity to which it is addressed. >> If you are not the intended recipient of this E-mail, you are hereby >> notified that any dissemination, distribution, copying, or action taken >> in relation to the contents of and attachments to this E-mail is >> strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If you have received this E- >> mail in error, please notify the sender immediately and permanently >> delete the original and any copy of this E-mail and any printout.