On Aug 13, 2013, at 6:24 AM, John Leslie <john@xxxxxxx> wrote: > There are a certain number of Working Groups where it's standard > operating practice to ignore any single voice who doesn't attend an > IETF week to defend his/her postings. I don't see that happening in the WGs I attend - when remote participants post to jabber, the jabber scribes get mic time. I think what you mean isn't really that physical participants "ignore" remote ones, but more that remote participants don't have as much impact/weight with their input/arguments than physical participants do. Is that what you mean? > I don't always understand what Doug is asking for; but I suspect > he is proposing to define a remote-participation where you get full > opportunity to defend your ideas. This simply doesn't happen today. Then fix that problem. Which solution addresses that problem: 1) Make remote participants pay money. 2) Add a separate mic line. 3) Add remote controls for A/V equipment. 4) Add XMPP controls for mic-line and humming. 5) None of the above. ISTM it's (5). Working Groups don't ignore remote participant voices because they don't pay money. They don't ignore them because they don't have a separate mic. They don't ignore them because they don't have A/V control. They don't ignore them because they don't have XMPP controls. WG physical participants "ignore" remote ones because they're not physically present. We're human beings. Human beings have a subconscious connection/empathy with other human beings based on our senses, that does not exist when we only read their words or only hear them speaking... especially when it's hear them by-proxy as the current jabber model uses. This isn't news to anyone - it's why people travel to meet other people, and why the telepresence market exists. The next step up from our current jabber-scribe model is to have audio input - the ability for remote participants to speak using their own voice, when it's their turn at the 'mic'. The next step up after that is video input, where remote participants can be seen as well as heard. Both of those are technically achievable, and possibly even practical to implement - though that's something the folks who run and manage the meetings would have to decide, since they'd know a lot more than us about that. -hadriel