On Dec 2, 2012, at 12:21 PM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > --On Sunday, December 02, 2012 08:35 -0800 SM <sm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> >> It is not about different dialects of English. There are >> people in one part of the world who speak English. There are >> people from other parts of the world which do not understand >> that English because of: >> >> (a) The way English is spoken >> >> (b) The speed at which English is spoken >> >> (c) The vocabulary used > > (d) Their reading-English is much better than their spoken > English and they have trouble keeping up even if (b) is quite > moderate. > >> The people face a high barrier for active participation at a >> meeting. > > But can be considerably aided in many cases by written material > (slides, summaries, or both) well in advance especially if those > material are also used at the meeting, thereby aiding > synchronization. > >> ... >> Accommodating the group of people is not enough. It is up to >> the group of people to say what they would like done to make >> the IETF easier for them. It is up to the (North American) >> group to, if you excuse me, shut up and take what they say at >> face value instead of trying to prove them wrong. > > Sigh. Some of the comments above are derived from exactly the > types of discussions you are trying to encourage. Other parts > of it derive from trying to understand and participate in > presentations and discussions in languages in which I can sort > of get around but am not real-time fluent (while the issue in > the IETF is the set of languages, dialects, and pronunciations > we call "English", the problem isn't unique). > > Cultural styles also make some of the most affected parties less > likely to speak up for their specific needs on this list than > one might like. That leaves the rest of us with a choice > between trying to synthesize from other conversations and > experiences and taking the position that, until the people with > the most severe versions of the problem speak up, there is no > problem. I believe the latter would be unfortunate for many > reasons, not least of which is that better use of meeting time > and presentation aids/ materials would help those of us who are > native speakers as well. I started making up really good slides (in a variety of settings) after noticing non-native-English speakers at the IETF taking pictures of the screen -- it *really* helped them. --Steve Bellovin, https://www.cs.columbia.edu/~smb