On 11/10/2012 5:35 AM, Arturo Servin wrote: > It's not bitching, it self criticism. I think that the IETF thinks > that it is very open but in reality it could do better. I'm not sure the IETF can "think" anything, but openness is an institutional value and goal, and we're sometimes more successful and sometimes less. That said, I find it a little difficult to believe that meeting location is a particularly significant contributor to meeting openness objectives. I'd agree that face-to-face meetings have become more important to IETF process than they probably should be, but I think it's still probably the case that you can be a significant contributor without actually attending a meeting. I think that we haven't done a sufficiently good job of acculturating newer participants and that can probably make the organization look more opaque and closed than it actually is. Most (but not all) working groups don't have enough help with document review, and I think that's probably the fast path to agency within the IETF. Being a body in a chair at a meeting is not. Melinda