On Sep 8, 2012, at 8:36 PM, Joe Touch <touch@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > On 9/8/2012 11:59 AM, Melinda Shore wrote: >> On 9/8/12 10:51 AM, Joe Touch wrote: >>> Nothing about an ID is inherently obsolete or out of date after 6 months >>> except its being publicly available on authorized sites (up until now). >> >> I think this is absolutely incorrect. Internet Drafts are IETF >> documents, and expiration changes the relationship between the draft >> and the IETF. I have to say that I think it's terribly unprofessional >> not to hang onto archival material > > Draft != archival > > Or do you keep copies of all versions of papers you publish, including the ones submitted for review? In case lawyers might need it, or for the benefit of the public? > >> and frankly it's in the interest >> of the IETF as an *open* standards organization to keep archival >> material accessible. > > Agreed. > >> When you're working on a problem that's been around forever and >> still hasn't been solved (like, oh, I dunno - firewall/NAT traversal?), >> easy access to expired drafts is an enormous help. > > The needs of the community - including the lawyers - do not outweigh the rights of the author or the agreement they make with the IETF to date. > > The original point of having drafts expire seems to have been forgotten here. That's a pity. It did have a reason, and it was useful. The original reason for expiring drafts, along with giving them long, complicated names that includes the word "draft", was to keep them from being referenced as if they were standards, based on experience gathered from the short lived IDEA document series. I don't think that having an archive of expired drafts weakens that original goal. -David Borman > >> Would you be more comfortable if there were some sort of visual >> flag that a draft had expired? > > If you post it, it's not expired. There's no point in claiming otherwise. > > Joe ---------------------------------------------------------------------- The information contained in this transmission may be confidential. Any disclosure, copying, or further distribution of confidential information is not permitted unless such privilege is explicitly granted in writing by Quantum. Quantum reserves the right to have electronic communications, including email and attachments, sent across its networks filtered through anti virus and spam software programs and retain such messages in order to comply with applicable data security and retention requirements. Quantum is not responsible for the proper and complete transmission of the substance of this communication or for any delay in its receipt.