On 5 Sep 2012, at 10:51, SM <sm@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > At 03:20 05-09-2012, Vinayak Hegde wrote: >> It might be prudent to add other details of the DMCA order as well. I >> have seen that other websites do that. > > The IETF can provide the reason for a removal, e.g. a DMCA order, in the tombstone. The "if possible" was left in as there could be a gag order preventing the IETF from disclosing the facts about a removal. I suspect that catching such things and capturing them in our procedures are the reason why the IETF has legal counsel. > Creating a perpetual I-D archive for the sake of rfcdiff is not a good idea as it goes against the notion of letting an I-D expire gracefully. On that, I agree fully. > At 07:32 05-09-2012, Thomas Heide Clausen wrote: >> IANAL either, but I can imagine valid non-DMCA reasons for the IESG wanting to remove an expired I-D, or add a tombstone file / note in its place. > > Yes. There has been a request to remove an I-D. > >> For example, I have seen examples where an IETFer (who'd been around the block a few times, and so did know better) repeatedly has held up and cited a long expired I-D claiming "Findings of the IETF show that ....", as part of his/her argument in various contexts outside of the IETF. > > The IETFer will now provide a long-lived URL for the expired I-D. :-) That's what has happened so far. It would be preferable if such an URL either wasn't on an IETF-sanctioned server, though. If archives of expired I-Ds are to exist on an IETF server, I-Ds should be clearly labeled as "These are *not* findings of the IETF, in fact, the IETF has abandoned this effort, for whatever reason, whoever pointed you here isn't keeping up" ;) > >> I am on the fence if some sort of "consensus for removal" among the ADs should be expected or not, though - as Alessandro's text concerns *expired* I-Ds. (It's trivial to render an *active* I-D *expired* by way of submitting a new version...) > > Yes. The author has the ability to correct a mistake. The new functionality makes matters more difficult for authors. It can be argued that the I-D will remain available on the Internet. There is nothing the IETF can do about that. The IETF can make the matter easier for the author by not distributing the I-D automatically after six months. Yup. Thomas > Regards, > -sm