RE: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt> (Allocation of anAssociated Channel Code Point for Use by ITU-T Ethernet basedOAM) to Informational RFC

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Having thought about this for some time, I think I concur with Russ' reasoning and the allocation should be made. 

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> Russ Housley
> Sent: Freitag, 2. März 2012 00:52
> To: Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
> Cc: IETF
> Subject: Re: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>
> (Allocation of anAssociated Channel Code Point for Use by ITU-T
> Ethernet basedOAM) to Informational RFC
> 
> Nurit:
> 
> Some people are using the lack of a code point as the reason that the
> cannot support the ITU-T document.  My approach tells the ITU-T that a
> code point is available to them IFF they are able to reach consensus.
> The removes IETF from the discussion.  This creates a situation where
> G.8113.1 succeeded or fails based on the ITU-T members actions, with no
> finger pointing at the IETF.  This is completely a Layer 9
> consideration, and it has noting to do with the technical content of
> the document.
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> On Mar 1, 2012, at 2:33 PM, Sprecher, Nurit (NSN - IL/Hod HaSharon)
> wrote:
> 
> > Russ,
> > I propose to simply re-discuss it when and IFF G.8113.1 is mature and
> > approved...
> > Best regards,
> > Nurit
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf
> > Of ext Russ Housley
> > Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:12 PM
> > To: IETF
> > Subject: Re: Last Call:<draft-betts-itu-oam-ach-code-point-03.txt>
> > (Allocation of anAssociated Channel Code Point for Use by ITU-T
> > Ethernet
> > basedOAM) to Informational RFC
> >
> >>>> Right now, there is no ITU-T approved document to reference.
> >>>> I am certainly not an expert on ITU-T process, but my
> understanding
> >>>> is that earliest that we could see an approved
> >>>> G.8113.1 is December 2012.  My point is that we don't want to
> >>>> assign a code point until the ITU-T approves their document.
> >>>> However, if we are willing to assign a code point to G.8113.1 once
> >>>> it is approved, then this would be an approach where the code
> point
> >>>> assignment would block on the approval of the normative reference.
> >>>>
> >>>> I like this approach from the political point of view.  With this
> >>>> approach the IETF tells the ITU-T that if and only if they are
> able
> >>>> to achieve consensus on G.8113.1, then a code point will be
> >>>> assigned.
> >>> FWIW, this seems entirely appropriate to me.  If we do it this way,
> >>> I think it is important to note --for the benefit of those more
> >>> historically involved with the ITU and others-- that we routinely
> >>> block our own documents on normative references to work that is
> >>> still in progress and, usually, do not do related code point
> >>> allocations until the blocking referenced documents are ready.
> Once
> >>> the present I-D is judged to be sufficiently ready, this approach
> >>> would therefore be IETF approval and a formal guarantee to the ITU
> >>> that a code point will be allocated if an when G.8113.1 is approved
> >>> and published, but not assignment of that code point until the
> >>> referenced base document is finished.
> >>>
> >>> Completely normal procedurally.
> >>>
> >> To be clear John our normal requirement would be that the technical
> >> community achieved consensus that the base document was ready. I
> have
> >> never seen ITU-T consensus on the contents of G.8113.1 at any
> meeting
> >> that I have observed. What in your view is the criteria for
> >> determining that  G.8113.1 has achieved consensus?
> >
> >
> > This is not an IETF problem, and I do not think that the IETF ought
> to
> > be discussing the internal workings of the ITU-T process.  The point
> > is to come up with a mechanism that allows the code point to be
> > assigned if and only if the ITU-T does come to a consensus by
> whatever
> > means is allowed by their own process.
> >
> > Russ
> > _______________________________________________
> > Ietf mailing list
> > Ietf@xxxxxxxx
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
> 
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