2/3rds of the IETF meetings in the USA would exacerbate visa problems for many attendees. I don't mind some amount of regularity in meeting site, like Minneapolis, or going where it's inexpensive (by the way, the Boston area is really cheap in the winter) but I think you need more variety than that. Thanks, Donald ============================= Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@xxxxxxxxx On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 9:12 AM, Ping Pan <ping@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > In the past three IETF meetings, I have traveled to Beijing, Prague and > Quebec City to meet most who live within a few hours (air, car, walking > etc.) from me. The next two will be in Taipei (in Winter) and Paris (in > Spring). This is more like a vacation package than a get-together for > engineers to solve problems face-to-face. > Several of us have chatted about this last week. How about this as > a recommendation? > We have two meetings in fixed locations each year: Minneapolis in winter, > and Phoenix in summer. The other one can be somewhere in Europe or Asia. > Both Minneapolis and Phoenix have huge conference facilities, are easy to go > to, and can get cheap off-season discount. Most of all, > it encourages the participants who want to do work going there. > Make sense? > Ping > > On Sun, Oct 23, 2011 at 7:50 AM, Eric Burger <eburger@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > wrote: >> >> It gets worse. To attend every IETF meeting costs about $10,000 per year. >> If we say one has to go to the face-to-face meetings, we limit the IETF to >> participants from corporations or entities that will sponsor the individual >> (pay to play?), IETF participants that have independent funds, or people >> that can generate significantly more than $10,000 per year from their IETF >> activities. $10,000 per year is not within a typical individual's budget. >> This is more especially so if the individual comes from a region of the >> world where the per-capita GDP is below $10,000 per year. >> >> Where does the $10,000 figure come from? It is based on the following >> assumptions: >> One trip is far, so $2,000 for airfare >> One trip is near, so $400 for airfare >> One trip is in between, so $1,200 for airfare >> >> Hotel: 6 nights (Sunday - Friday) at $200 average per night (including >> tax). >> I know, Taipei is much more than that and Vancouver, including tax, will >> be exactly that. However, the numbers are nice and round at $200. I often >> cannot afford to stay at the conference hotel; use your own numbers for your >> own circumstances. >> >> Meals & Misc Expenses: $50/day for 6 days >> >> So, the calculation is: >> 3x ($650 registration fee + $1,200 average airfare + $1,200 average hotel >> cost + $300 meals/other) = $10,050 >> >> >> It is critically important to note the cost is dominated by travel and >> hotel. The only parameter in IETF's control is the registration fee. Even if >> ISOC, sponsors, or someone else endowed the IETF so we could drop the >> registration fee to zero, the annual cost for travel is over $8,000, which >> is still rather expensive. >> >> I do not believe we consciously want to prohibit individuals from >> participating in the IETF. I do not believe we consciously want to prohibit >> individuals from outside North America, Europe, and select (wealthy) Asian >> countries. However, this is one logical result of mandating people go to the >> face-to-face to get work done. >> >> >> On Oct 23, 2011, at 6:26 AM, Dave CROCKER wrote: >> >> > >> > >> > On 10/21/2011 7:58 PM, Melinda Shore wrote: >> >> It's increasingly the case that if you >> >> want to do work at the IETF, you need to go to meetings. I'd have >> >> considerable reservations about asking for the kind of money you're >> >> suggesting. >> > >> > >> > Melinda, >> > >> > I've changed the subject line because the point you raise is orthogonal >> > to the main thread, but since you raise it, it's worth exploring a bit >> > (since I happen to agree with your observation.) >> > >> > The dynamics that make this true seem to have to do with changes in our >> > community rather than in the nature of the technical work or the online >> > tools. >> > >> > So the question is how to move the center of gravity back to mailing >> > lists? >> > >> > d/ >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Dave Crocker >> > Brandenburg InternetWorking >> > bbiw.net >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Ietf mailing list >> > Ietf@xxxxxxxx >> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Ietf mailing list >> Ietf@xxxxxxxx >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf