> In looking through this discussion, I see: > - People saying that moving from 3 steps to 2 steps is a small step in the > right direction, lets do it. Many people who have said this (including I) have > been silent for a while quite possibly because they have gotten frustrated with > the endless discussion. Ross, I'm right there with you. I fully support this document at worse a small incremental step that clears away the some brush (at best it may actually turn out to be quite valuable) and I'm completely frustrated that this discussion is continuing. This really needs to stop now. And yes, some people aren't happy with the outcome. Thems the breaks. > - People saying that there are other more important problems that we should > be focusing on. Therefore, rather than either making this simple change or > discussing other possible improvements in the process, instead let's debate > this simple step forever and never get anything done. At least part of the problem is lack of agreement on what the issues are. Even if this step is a waste of time - I think that's unlikely but let's suppose - at least it will make it clear where the problems *aren't*. > - People saying that this step won't do anything. > Two things that I don't seem to have picked up on: (i) Any consensus that a 3 > step process is better than a 2 step process; (ii) Any hint of moving towards > an agreement on other things that we might do to improve the process. Well, that's the real problem, isn't it? Even if you believe this is a distraction and even actively harmful, it's not like we've been able to move past it either. The "running code" result here seems pretty clear, and it does not argue in favor of another round of discussion. > I think that we should go to a "two maturity level" process, be done with > this little step, and also enthusiastically encourage people to write drafts > that propose *other* changes to the process. Then at least we can be debating > something different 6 months from now than we were debating last year. +100 Ned _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf