Paul Hoffman <paul.hoffman@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Jul 1, 2011, at 4:48 AM, John Leslie wrote: > >> mail.ietf.org[64.170.98.30] got listed on SORBS for spamming. >> >> It's not that hard to get off... Fix it! > > > It's also not that hard not to use poorly-managed blacklists. Just sayin'.... I'm _really_ poor at flame-wars, but Paul is begging here... It's exceptionally hard for folks to avoid poorly-managed blacklists when the incoming-email setup isn't under their control. (Not true for me, of course, nor for my customers if they think to ask.) IMHO, it's entirely reasonable to use even poorly-managed blacklists as input to spam-assassin. And it's not up to _you_ to say what the scoring algorithm should be for one of my customers. Also, it's really not rocket-science to log the 550 replies to mailing-list distribution attempts: these _will_ accumulate quickly if something the size of mail.ietf.org gets on a blacklist (poorly- managed or otherwise). The state-of-the-art in spam-abatement is far short of what it should be. Folks who receive 100 spams per day tend to ask for more aggressive spam-abatement, and it's not good business to refuse. Also, poorly-managed is in the eye of the beholder. sorbs.net is among the mainstream, alas; and while _I_ won't argue whether they're well-managed, there are plenty of folks who will. I recommend against blanket "blame-the-receiver" policies. I have customers that have received over 6,000 spams per day when I turned off "all" spam-abatement for them: that's far beyond reasonable "blame-the-receiver" territory. They _must_ do something, and I'm not going to criticize what they do. Please, everyone, understand that recipients _can't_ do the whole job on spam-abatement. Folks running mailing-lists for organizations like the IETF need to do their part, and are in a better position than some of my customers to bear the cost. (BTW, I did get a ticket in the system _well_ before my posting here. I won't quote the reply; but I think it would be helpful for the folks who process such tickets to post on this thread.) -- John Leslie <john@xxxxxxx> _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf