2011/1/14 Olaf Kolkman <olaf@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
+1
Portzamparc
Jean-Michel,
This what lead us to identify three areas of not yet cloned people's responsibility:
- the operance for the short term operational issues that are mostly addressed by agreements and contracts and are related to machines.
- the governance for mid-term relational issues that are mostly addressed by international rules and national laws and are related to people.
- the adminance for the long-term architectural orientations that operance and governance may trust, that make the Internet (hence in part the world) constitution (as per L. Lessig) and that are related to humanity.
We feel that up to now operance managers/corporates and governance politicians/governments have left the adminance to IAB and IRTF, applied by the IETF, forgetting that they shape the possible futures of people,and leaving an under influence "market" to "decide". The claim of the young emerging IUse (Intelligent Internet and IETF Users) community is to be an active part of the Internet adminance. Moreover this is an urgent issue as the technology (cf. the IDNA2008 example) has reached the fringes of possible semantic facilitation services, i.e. the possibility of social meaning engineering.
If "fun" and "monney" are the only IETF motivations, there is some urgency to work on new meanings production. The IUse value added meaning is to permit everyone to technically empower him/herself, to do what he/she likes in life better, for the good of networked others. Because we beleive that such a distributed and intricated network of diverse meaning and purpose in life is the only solution we (the people) will be left with "the day after the google-stream stops".
Also, I fear this very interesting thread forgets two important aspects we IUsers try to deal with:
- we also are engineers and developers who can engineer and document. But we are not dedicated to the sole global internet, being first interested in our internets (possibly through different technologies, and for our own business). These internets do not have the budget to pay for an IETF time, we cannot wait for years, and most of all why would this be under ISOC Copyright? We need many things we can think off to be used elsewhere and therefore to be public domain.
- in uncoupling the Internet functions from the Internet Use Interface possibilities, IDNA2008 has open an entire new engineering area, outside/on top of the IETF scope. We are interested in "fringe to fringe" smart services (extended services) and to directly support semantic facilitation you could dub as "brain to brain". For that we need the IETF underlaying Internet we use to work well, and its engineers to seriously want to understand what we need and why and to help us with it.
jfc
For some of us: A feeling of responsibility in shaping the future of the Internet that is beyond direct corporate interest and next year's line items.
On Jan 14, 2011, at 9:23 AM, Alessandro Vesely wrote:
> On 11/Jan/11 20:32, John C Klensin wrote:
>> --On Tuesday, January 11, 2011 10:35 -0800 Randy Presuhn
>> <randy_presuhn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>>> At issue though is that these individuals get paid
>>>> (sponsored) by someone, either directly or indirectly by
>>>> corporations and/or governments.
>>>
>>> Not necessarily. Some of us have no employer and just do this
>>> stuff for the fun of it.
>>
>> Indeed. Although I'm increasingly taking exception to the "fun"
>> part.
>
> If you remove fun, what else remains that can be used as a compass to
> take a bearing in iffy circumstances?
+1
Portzamparc
Jean-Michel,
This what lead us to identify three areas of not yet cloned people's responsibility:
- the operance for the short term operational issues that are mostly addressed by agreements and contracts and are related to machines.
- the governance for mid-term relational issues that are mostly addressed by international rules and national laws and are related to people.
- the adminance for the long-term architectural orientations that operance and governance may trust, that make the Internet (hence in part the world) constitution (as per L. Lessig) and that are related to humanity.
We feel that up to now operance managers/corporates and governance politicians/governments have left the adminance to IAB and IRTF, applied by the IETF, forgetting that they shape the possible futures of people,and leaving an under influence "market" to "decide". The claim of the young emerging IUse (Intelligent Internet and IETF Users) community is to be an active part of the Internet adminance. Moreover this is an urgent issue as the technology (cf. the IDNA2008 example) has reached the fringes of possible semantic facilitation services, i.e. the possibility of social meaning engineering.
If "fun" and "monney" are the only IETF motivations, there is some urgency to work on new meanings production. The IUse value added meaning is to permit everyone to technically empower him/herself, to do what he/she likes in life better, for the good of networked others. Because we beleive that such a distributed and intricated network of diverse meaning and purpose in life is the only solution we (the people) will be left with "the day after the google-stream stops".
Also, I fear this very interesting thread forgets two important aspects we IUsers try to deal with:
- we also are engineers and developers who can engineer and document. But we are not dedicated to the sole global internet, being first interested in our internets (possibly through different technologies, and for our own business). These internets do not have the budget to pay for an IETF time, we cannot wait for years, and most of all why would this be under ISOC Copyright? We need many things we can think off to be used elsewhere and therefore to be public domain.
- in uncoupling the Internet functions from the Internet Use Interface possibilities, IDNA2008 has open an entire new engineering area, outside/on top of the IETF scope. We are interested in "fringe to fringe" smart services (extended services) and to directly support semantic facilitation you could dub as "brain to brain". For that we need the IETF underlaying Internet we use to work well, and its engineers to seriously want to understand what we need and why and to help us with it.
jfc
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