True. But the visa issues seem to be the worst part of any US IETF. Travel, food and finding a hotel are typically much easier in most US venues then European venues. People from Europe, Japan, Australia, and some other countries don't need a visa at all to go to an IETF meeting in the US. People from China, India and the other countries are generally backed by employers, who can vouch for their travelling "on business", and generally should not have any trouble obtaining the US visa. I would go so far as to say that getting a US visa seems easier than getting one to China. Who are the people for whom it's easier to visit a European country than it is to visit the US? On balance, I think US venues are generally better suited, and lead to less angst than either European or Asian venues. Even if they're in a cold place like Minneapolis. -----Original Message----- From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Christer Holmberg Sent: 06 September 2010 08:17 To: Andrew G. Malis; Glen Zorn Cc: Randall Gellens; IETF-Discussion list; Hadriel Kaplan Subject: RE: Optimizing for what? Was Re: IETF Attendance by continent Hi, I assume Hawaii has the same visa issues as the rest of US... Regards, Christer _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf