Randall Gellens [mailto:randy@xxxxxxxxxxxx] writes: > At 10:06 AM +0700 8/30/10, Glen Zorn wrote: > > > > Are there any smoke-free restaurants near the site, or even > anywhere > >> in Beijing? > > > > Don't worry: the Disneyfication of the planet continues apace & the > Chinese, > > being good capitalists, have also discovered the profit advantages in > > controlling human behavior as opposed to actual air quality. I'm > sure that > > you will be able to find many places to soak up your preferred > mixture of > > toxic pollutants without any offensive additions. > > Of course different people see things differently, but I find it hard > to see how you can compare not being forced against one's will to > smoke to Disney's bland entertainment. A little less hyperbole would go a long way toward making this conversation productive: nobody is forcing you against your will to do anything, let alone smoke. Everybody makes choices every day, always choosing those things they perceive as preferable (if possible). Maybe Qualcomm is actually forcing you against your will to go and breathe the abysmal air in Beijing for a week but I doubt it: they would probably be happy to save the expense & you could always resign. Even if there were no non-smoking restaurants anywhere in China you would have a number of options for feeding yourself for the week. If, in that situation, you were to enter a restaurant I doubt strongly that it would be because you were in chains with a gun to your head; rather, it would be because you found it preferable to the alternatives. > Personally, I have no > interest in controlling anyone's behavior, *except* that I prefer > that someone else's choice not drag me into it. A one-man spaceship sounds like the only answer, then, since other people's choices 'drag you into it' virtually constantly. > If you want to > drink, shoot heroin, skydive, whatever, I don't care at all unless > you try to force me to do the same. When someone smokes in public, > every else is forced to smoke as well. Nonsense: there is always, at least, the option to move away. > If you want to inject > nicotine during an IETF session or at dinner, I could not care less. > Just don't force me to as well. I can only assume that you never actually been forced to do anything; I cannot otherwise explain your cavalier use of the word. > As U.S. Supreme Court Justice Oliver > Wendell Holmes wrote, "The right to swing my fist ends where the > other man's nose begins." Again, refraining from hyperbole would be helpful. Only in the most fevered imagination could a person smoking 25 feet away be equated with a personal, physical attack. > > I really cannot figure out what what you are saying about the > Chinese. I am not aware of them controlling smoking in public, so I > assume you're talking about something else, but what? Can you please > clarify? Sorry for the lack of clarity: I really thought that my meaning was obvious. Anyway, especially since they "cleaned up" the town in the run-up to the Olympics there are (in my experience) lots of non-smoking restaurants in Beijing. For example, all of the restaurants in the Shangri-La have non-smoking sections. Here is a link to a non-smoking (& cheap) 4* hotel closer than the Nikko: http://www.agoda.com/asia/china/beijing/jiu_zhou_commercial_hotel.html. ... _______________________________________________ Ietf mailing list Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf