On Thu, 24 Sep 2009, Theodore Tso wrote: > True, but you probably *could* say that you (and every other Federal > employee, including the president) that to execute an oath to > preserve, protect, and defend the constitution of the United States, > and that one of the previsions in the Bill of Rights was this thing > guarantee of "Freedom of Speech". Similarly, European officials could > point to the Charter of Fundamental Rights, and its guarantees of > "Freedom of Expression". > > So in answer to Ole's question, other governments of other countries > *could* provide an answer in a manner (the US Bill of Rights and/or > the CFR) and timeframe (immediate) in a way which is immediately > useful --- and which apparently, China can not. > Gee. If only every country in the world had a political system as good as yours.... :-) Not wishing to defend China's government or policies, but it "is what it is" and the world of business seems to be happily engaged. Most of the Apple products I own were built in China and shipped from there directly to me. Other organizations and businesses have meetings in China "all the time." There is little, if any anecdotal evindence that anyone has encountered heavy-handed interference and shutdowns. If we have to curb our right to public protest for 5 days is this really the end of the IETF as we know it? We brag about being a global organization and how we're all connecting people together with our technology, but the minute we encounter a slightly ominous sounding clause we're going to just walk away? I find this attitude very depressing if it's prevalent. I fully understand what our principles are, and we should strive to make others accept and adopt them, but I don't agree that this is best done through a boycott. To repeat: The IAOC does not think we are in any real danger of having our meeting disrupted or terminated due to actions which would be deemed in violation of the clause in question. We expect a meeting in China to be just like any other IETF meeting and we will be saying more about this soon. Stay tuned. Ole _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf