Hi. After a brief offlist conversation with Zhujui, I think I may have added to the confusion, rather than clarifying. So let me see if I can summarize my remarks and maybe his. * There are, or have been, some countries that view visa application requirements purely as revenue opportunities. China is not one of them -- this is a serious process. * One needs to pay careful attention to information and materials requested and to schedules. And, I hope obviously, one should to supply what is needed, when it is required. Doing otherwise wastes your time and that of the consular official. * When visa applications (or applicants) somehow cause consular officials concern, the most popular action is not to deny them but to delay issuing them until the relevant event has passed. That behavior is not unique to PRC officials -- the US arguably pioneered it or at least elevated its use to that of an art form. * Different consulates (even within the same country and representing the same other country) may have different policies in practice. The ability to apply for a particular type of visa does not imply that it will be granted. Unless you actually know what the policies are in practice (the better visa agencies do), it is usually prudent to not apply for more than you actually need, especially if you have not visited the country before. Again, that is a general principle and has nothing to do with the PRC in particular. * If you don't live in a place convenient to a Consulate, or have doubts about the process, visa agencies ("brokers") are a good idea and perhaps a necessity. Fees, services, and styles differ widely. None of the above should be taken as implying that this a big deal. It is just an administrative necessity that must be dealt with in a timely and orderly fashion. For those for whom the experience is new, consider it a learning opportunity. IMO, the visa issue should not be part of the question of whether or not to go to a meeting in China (or elsewhere) although I hope that, when visa fees for large numbers of attendees are non-trivial, the IAOC considers those fees as part of their calculations of the cost of a meeting location to attendees. john _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf