Re: draft-housley-iesg-rfc3932bis and the optional/mandatory nature of IESG notes

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RFC 5620 calls for the appointment of an RFC Series Advisory Group, to be appointed by the IAB, and a Independent Submissions Stream Editorial Board (ISSEB for now), which serves at the pleasure of the ISE.
This was reviewed and approved by the community.
I presume with cognizance of the existing rules about the authority over the Streams.

I presume you are concerned about the membership of the ISSEB.
Given that this stream is specifically not an IETF stream, I do not see why it would make sense for the membership to be appointed by the IETF community, through its nomcom designates.

With regard to appeals, are you asking for an ability to appeal an IAB decision about the RFC Editor? Presumably, a procedural appeal could be made to the ISoC Board of Trustees, if the IAB had not followed documented procedures. But otherwise, we are back to the issue of undermining the Independence of the Independent Stream.

Remember, all of these documents are Experimental or Informational.
Yours,
Joel

Sam Hartman wrote:
"John" == John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> writes:
    John> However, if your concern is really to make sure that there
    John> is a timely appeal path, I have a suggestion that might be
    John> acceptable to everyone without causing unfortunate
    John> side-effects.  We simply require that, if the ISE receives
    John> input from the IESG requesting specific changes to a
    John> document ("specific changes" including, but not limited to,
    John> so-called "IESG Notes") and the ISE and authors decide to
    John> not incorporate those proposed changes, the ISE is required
    John> to explain to the IESG, in writing, why not and allow a
    John> reasonable period of time for the IESG to respond.  If it
    John> felt it were necessary, the IESG could then open a further
    John> discussion, ask the RSE to mediate, or launch a formal
    John> request for IAB review.  Consistent with other provisions in
    John> RFC 4846, either the IESG or the ISE could, at their
    John> discretion, make the correspondence (the request and
    John> response) public.

John, in principle,  I would be delighted by this option if you made a few more changes to make the RFC process more accountable:

1) Open up the rfc-editorial board so that it was selected by some sort of nomcom/community process.  That nomcom could of course draw from a broader community than the IETF as a whole

2) Provide an appeals path for IAB decisions related to the RFC-editor function

I have a lot more faith in the IETF process than I do the RFC editor
process.  I believe that the RFC editor process is more open to a
different type of abuse than the IESG process, but I believe we have a
far more open process for addressing problems with the IESG than we do
with IAB decisions about the RFC editor or with the RFC editor process
itself.

However, absent these changes, I don't believe there would be
appropriate checks and balances present.

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