End to end ceases to have any value whatsoever once people attempt to codify it into a rigid ideology. Security does not respond at all well to ideological mandates. We have tried to deploy end-to-end solutions and failed. In many cases we could easily have succeeded if we had been less inflexible in the approach. You are not doing David any favors whatsoever here. He is not a dogmatic ideologue. The end-to-end paper was originally written when rigid ideologues such as yourself considered the telephone network to be the ultimate communications infrastructure. Above all, it is an argument against dogmatic approaches to system architecture. You are completely misrepresenting his work. On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Masataka Ohta<mohta@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Phillip Hallam-Baker wrote: > >> I really see no value in debating whether DNSSEC is 'end to end'. > > Being end to end has practical benefits, which is why the Internet > has been so successful, which is why some people have been insisting > on a false statement that DNSSEC were secure end to end. > > For example, the following statement of you in another subthread: > >> The >> current design would establish the root key holder as the perpetual >> controller of the DNS. > > means DNSSEC involves the root key holder as a third party and not > end to end. > > Feel free to see no value on your statements. > >> Clearly DNSSEC is only one component in a security solution and >> whether it is 'end-to-end' depends on what you decide to call an >> endpoint. > > According to the terminology of David Clark, DNSSEC is not end > to end. > >> When Kaminsky discovered his cache poisoning vulnerability, some >> companies put out PR saying that the issue was already known, as if >> that made things better somehow. > > The issue is that the concept of "bailiwick" is broken, which > was already pointed out. > > Kaminsky's attack can be protected against by proper handling > of glue, without which DNSSEC cache can also be poisoned. > > Masataka Ohta > > > -- -- New Website: http://hallambaker.com/ View Quantum of Stupid podcasts, Tuesday and Thursday each week, http://quantumofstupid.com/ _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf