Hi, Antoin, This was quite tranquilizing. Thank you for posting. I haven't been an adventurous traveler in Europe, but did have a nice day-long train trip from Amsterdam (SHIM6 interim) to Paris (Softwires interim) a couple of years ago, and that was OK. So I think there's hope. On the other hand, my most adventurous IETF was the Dallas IETF And Watersports Event, and that was about 40 miles from my house, so I bet the biggest issue for IETF 78 turns out to be a surprise, too! Spencer
However, the Netherlands only has a single airport with decent>> connections and ground transportation. For those of us traveling to>> IETF-78 from within Europe it's still doable (probably have to>> sacrifice the friday afternoon sessions, though) but I'm glad I don't>> have to fly in from the US west coast or Asia.>> First to respond to Iljitsch comments of more plausible venues.> The major issue here in NL are Hotels, not conference centers.> That's because conference attendees usually don't stay over in NL, but go > home to wife and kids in this densely populated country. The trip home is > on average about an hour from any congress location.> The largest hotel in NL is yet to be build, and has a capacity of 500 > rooms. All other hotels are (much) smaller, and they usually are for > tourists.> There are cities that have a joint hotel capacity for an IETF, but if you > don't want to end up in Youth hostels, Budget Hotels or sloppy Airport > hotels with no facilities at all in the hotel or neighborhood, there are 3 > places left. So Utrecht and Rotterdam are not viable options due to > spreading out over too many and too uncomfortable hotels.> Some of us don't mind about hotel quality, but other frequent travelers > do. An IETF should provide capacity for both.> Maastricht wouldn't have been my first choice due to the absence of an > International airport, but I'm sure the location was chosen because of > other logistics that could not be met in Amsterdam or The Hague.>> You might also have noticed that there are multiple sponsors for this > meeting, none of them being major international corporations.> None of these sponsors could carry the sponsoring budget all by > themselves, but they all wanted to contribute to make your cost less.> That might also explain the choice of the venue, as there are sponsors > from NL, BE and DE.> If you don't want sponsors like that anymore, and only choose large > multinationals that don't care about location of the meeting, fine. You'll > have less sponsors to choose from, and end up in the same places like > Minneapolis every time.>> And perhaps it's time to tranquilize some people.> I live in the south of the Netherlands, and I have to make the journey > to/from Amsterdam/Brussels/Paris/Frankfurt airport on EVERY IETF or other > trip that involves flying.> And I travel 100 km to work every day, which takes me less time than to > get from an Amsterdam outskirt to Amsterdam center, so reach ability is > something else than proximity.> There used to be scheduled domestic flights between Amsterdam Schiphol > Airport and other Dutch airports like Maastricht-Aachen Airport, but they > abolished them a number of years ago because the train between those > airports was faster, cheaper, more frequent, more economical and more > efficient than a flight.>> I'll make sure there will be a good guide in due time.> But to give you some of my experiences in advance:>> Train travel is the most used and comfortable way to reach an airport in > Western Europe.> I find a taxi ride from any airport anywhere in the world more adventurous > and risky than a train from Schiphol in the Netherlands.> Trains are clean, comfortable and run on schedule here.> You'll also find that this is more true on the Amsterdam-Maastricht > intercity line than on local trains near Amsterdam/The Hague/Rotterdam.> Your figure of 80% trains that run on time is only because we consider a > train late when it's 1 minute overdue, even when the next train is > scheduled 15 minutes later.> By that definition, a taxi ride during rush hour is less predictable, and > will never run on time.>> The 4 major International airports for Maastricht are Amsterdam, Brussels, > Paris and Frankfurt.>> Amsterdam Schiphol airport.> This is probably your best choice.> The train journey to Maastricht will take you 2:34 on weekdays, 2:50 in > the weekends and runs every half hour between 5:02 and 22:14.> It involves 1 stopover in either Utrecht, 's-Hertogenbosch or Eindhoven, > so there is enough choice and no reason for panic:>> Schiphol--Utrecht--'s-Hertogenbosch--Eindhoven> Utrecht--'s-Hertogenbosch--Eindhoven--Maastricht>> Maastricht is an end station, so no reason to panic getting off. Everybody > leaves the train in Maastricht, you will not miss your stop.>> Brussels airport> Also a good choice, but with less international flights. If your airline > does do Brussels, it's an excellent choice.> The train journey to Maastricht will take you 1:46 or 1:58 and runs every > hour between 5:50 and 21:50.> It involves 1 stopover in Brussels:>> Bruxelles-Nat.-Aéroport-- Brussel Noord/Bruxelles Nord> Brussel Noord/Bruxelles Nord--Maastricht>>> Paris Charles de Gaulle airport> Is a reasonable alternative if your airline doesn't do Amsterdam or > Brussels.> The train journey to Maastricht will take you approx 3,5 hours, and > includes 2 stopovers.> First from Paris CDG to Paris Nord by RER, then take the TGV to Brussels, > and then to Maastricht:>> Aeroport Charles de Gaulle 1--Paris Nord> Paris Nord-- Bruxelles-Sud/Midi> Bruxelles-Sud/Midi--Maastricht>> Frankfurt airport> Is probably your worst choice.> Although there are lots of international flights, the train connection to > Maastricht is poor.> There is a 1 stopover train via Utrecht which takes 5:21 and a 3 stopover > journey that takes 4:25>>> So all things considered, I think taking a train is faster and more > comfortable than having to change to a connecting flight to get anywhere > that is not one of the major International hubs.> Sit back and relax, and consider it part of the journey, not just the > final mile.>> For more information (in English) on the trains and schedules, check out: > http://www.ns.nl/cs/Satellite/travellers> (It includes schedules from Brussels/Paris/Frankfurt even though that's > not in the Netherlands)> It even has manuals on how to buy a ticket from vending machines.>> Furthermore. Maastricht is a compact, nice and ancient city, with lots of > good restaurants and places to socialize.> It's also nice for the IETF crowd to find that the Netherlands is bigger > than just Amsterdam, and atmosphere can be different with little space in > between.> Though the IETF crowd won't fit into one Hotel, most of the hotels will be > in the proximity of the city center.> With the conference center at the edge of the city, I assume there will be > shuttles accommodating the people that don't want to walk.> Not ideal, but just as San Diego and Dallas, it'll work out.> Hotels will be small, with rooms smaller and less luxurious than average > massive US hotels, but food will no doubt be better and atmosphere less > intimidating.>> That's all the information I have right now, I'm sure more will follow.> I'm looking forward seeing you all in Maastricht next year.>>> Antoin Verschuren>> Technical Policy Advisor> SIDN> Utrechtseweg 310> PO Box 5022> 6802 EA Arnhem> The Netherlands>> T +31 26 3525500> F +31 26 3525505> M +31 6 23368970> E antoin.verschuren@xxxxxxx> W http://www.sidn.nl/> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----> Version: 9.6.3 (Build 3017)>> wsBVAwUBShvycDqHrM883AgnAQjOTwf/azreAb/hoR6iIkpOBIMaevsM0eBiI5b1> 2CYYKmdIaFixpGafiz+oa5K/EyBWO+clLGuqTW1/v2EydicgBBffG+kU1cHI6P/K> oxwOd/e4Bz0gaCK7rLjcUB2vuyBWDyaA3HYuBVMrz7rfnplYYTlrWUqZC3DIyMy5> bbI/vXWeXe3LPfsusXXO0w4UHyeq5IMFYC0YwZKoHVFfBAwCx+ByTLZPdA+PGluU> B1vFeeZ2SKAkz0781q0NT0N/1+hgPb+wDqePv64WxVWoKNFi3L5xGgvK0wuwBOce> T/jKqZaGf1MAjZzFCjW81VjZy2uFnAPmSg9tG9wcsZJCNMJxce0CQg==> =hk5f> -----END PGP SIGNATURE----->> _______________________________________________> Ietf mailing list> Ietf@xxxxxxxx> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf>
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