Dear Melinda (as well as Ole and Noel, who updated with posts while I was writing this =) ): I understand your concern, and it concerns me as well. I'm in a bit of a delicate situation, attempting to play the role of liason between us and the FSF (ever since I volunteered for such a duty yesterday), and since yesterday's events I've been attempting to reconcile what is reconcilable (if anything is) and send better methods that the FSF can use to voice its concerns in the future over to them. Examples like "Reject TLS!" are definitely good examples of ignorant comments in here, and I'm not attempting to defend that. But there were intelligent arguments made as well, and those shouldn't be ignored just because they originated amidst posts that were less educated. The FSF, like I said, seemed to appreciate the gesture we sent to them when I bundled the alternative recommendations that people sent my way. Maybe it will lead to a more productive and less frustrating approach on their part in the future. What I don't want to see, however, is intelligent and reasonable people turned away by the abruptness of the backlash here. I can understand the reasons for that abruptness, but intelligent interested parties and people with a passing (or less) interest are both going to feel rebuffed and unwelcome if our response is rude. I've been trying to help this situation, for example, and I've received a handful of rude comments and dismissals thrown my way just in doing that. I don't think anyone deliberately intended to be rude - they were understandably upset with the situation. What I'm saying is that the FSF should consider the alternative methods of bringing up their concerns that we sent to them, and we should consider a larger measure of patience and tolerance when these things happen. And indeed, as Noel said, the idea of adding a link expounding a bit further about the scope and intent of last call could be one of many solutions. The FSF using one of the other, more productive channels (such as the ones I mentioned in that E-Mail) is another one. Judging by the FSF's response, it is my hope that they're giving serious consideration to the alternatives I sent them. They seemed appreciative of the information. Theoretically they could've been merely patronizing me... but I prefer not to accuse someone of patronization unless it becomes clear that such is the case. In that light, I propose that we give them the benefit of the doubt and see if they take those more productive routes the next time around. Certainly it would be in their own best interest as much as it would be in ours. Sincerely, Alex Loret de Mola _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf