On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 8:47 AM, John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > > --On Wednesday, 12 November, 2008 23:46 -0500 Al Iverson > <aiverson@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >>... >> The professional who has printed their AOL.com email address >> on their business card has problems that are far greater than, >> and not unique to, an ISP's use of DNSBLs. > > And yet, Al, it is fairly regularly done. And yahoo.com > addresses are even more common -- a usage that, at least at one > time, Yahoo actively encouraged for those who were maintaining > stores there. I also see mac.com and gmail.com email addresses > on business cards fairly regularly. John, I'm sorry you misunderstand. I was already well aware that some people use an ISP email address on printed materials. Maybe they paint it on their van down by the river. Just like with a phone number. That doesn't negate the fact that there is ample evidence that recipients will jump ship on an ISP when they can't get desired mail. Again, working for an ESP, this is a scenario that I deal with regularly. Both scenarios exist, clearly. I don't agree that it's hard to change ISPs (or set up a second mailbox to route around an inbound delivery issue), but I grant that it is non-trivial for many. Ultimately, though, I need a better understand here. Not getting it from what's been said so far. What's the point? If the point is that DNSBLs should be more accountable, and we should work toward a world where spam filtering usage, usage of DNSBLs, can be configured on a per-user basis, and a user has an easy method of opting in or opting out, then I'm in full agreement. But that's not where the world is today, and it's unreasonable to expect it to be written into a specification that will then be ignored. If that isn't your point, then I must humbly admit that I don't understand and I await further insight. Regards, Al -- Al Iverson on Spam and Deliverability, see http://www.spamresource.com News, stats, info, and commentary on blacklists: http://www.dnsbl.com My personal website: http://www.aliverson.com -- Chicago, IL, USA _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf