>> So as was already mentioned, one could >> argue the waist hourglass is HTTP and HTTP/SSL, and this discussion is >> irrelevant. >> > > Many NATs and firewalls block incoming TCP sessions or unexpected UDP > packets. So if we use the logic "only stuff that works on 100% of all > hosts connected to the internet is relevant" then EVERYTHING is > irrelevant. > You are missing a really important point: Things just don't work if you do not have a protocol for establishing and maintaining the e2e connectivity. SIP (in combination with ICE), for example, is such a protocol that allows you todo that. Mobile IP is another one (when you fix various things) etc. It is implicit in Jonathan's draft but maybe it should be made more explicit. Ciao Hannes _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf