Re: I-D Action:draft-rosenberg-internet-waist-hourglass-00.txt]

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Well, if history is any guide, eventually people will in fact want to 
run this from someplace a little farther away, and then you're in big 
trouble. So, I think the advice remains the same. There is no drawback 
to having it over UDP to start with - it works when there are no NAT, 
and it can work when there are NAT.

-Jonathan R.

Joel M. Halpern wrote:
> However, I would really like to reinforce the point from another note. 
> There are quite a few contexts where the ability to run a sensible 
> transport directly over IP is indeed very useful.  For example, the 
> ForCES working group scope is limited (by chart) to the case where the 
> control element is near the forwarding element.  I am not worried about 
> there being a NAT between those.  So SCTP or DCCP over IP is very relevant.
> 
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
> 
> 
> Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>> I wrote this because of a discussion that happened during behave at the 
>> last IETF meeting in Vancouver. There was a presentation in the behave 
>> working group on NAT ALG for SCTP - when run natively over IP - and I 
>> found the entire conversation surreal. The entire problem would have 
>> been moot if SCTP had been designed to run over UDP and not IP.
>>
>> So apparently its not obvious to everyone that you cannot design 
>> protocols natively ontop of IP.
>>
>> -Jonathan R.
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-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg, Ph.D.                   499 Thornall St.
Cisco Fellow                                   Edison, NJ 08837
Cisco, Voice Technology Group
jdrosen@xxxxxxxxx
http://www.jdrosen.net                         PHONE: (408) 902-3084
http://www.cisco.com
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