At 8:37 -0800 2/6/08, $someone wrote: >The descriptions of the venue make clear that, once again, the IETF is meeting >in a ghetto. Periodic bus service doesn't counteract that. I really have a hard time being sympathetic to this complaint. If the purpose of the IETF is open discussion and cross-pollination, what does it matter where we are so long as there's comfortable access to the expertise needed? Is there an unwritten requirement that IETFs are placed to afford us sightseeing? To afford us access to restaurants? One of the early negative comments on the site made light of the fact that it was a golf resort[0]. Physical activity is to be discouraged? Yet another questioned the distance from outside restaurants[1] - apparently "many fine lunches and dinners" is required, exercise is immoral. BTW - I have no knowledge of the venue, I've never been to Ireland. I'm reacting to seeing these complaints pile up over the years about nearly everywhere we have been. I am a regular attendee at many other conference series. Although some series face greater logistical challenges (like venues cancelling late in the planning, under powered metro and hotel infrastructures, etc.) and pose less convenient travel arrangements for the average attendee (using places off the "main grid"), I hear much less whining from the attendees there than I hear about IETF arrangements. Calling any venue that I have ever been in for any kind of a conference "a ghetto" is quite an insult to folks that do live in "ghettos" or other unfortunate places that I have seen. I don't know if it is true now, but as of a few years ago, the IETF had never ventured to a country or economy where the expected life span of a person was below the global mean/average. Other conferences do regularly, "even ICANN." That's where you can see a ghetto - on the way from the airport to the 5-star hotel. (Pointers to mail just to say I'm not making this up.) [0] - can't find this in the archive, so here's the copy in my IETF folder: At 21:37 -0600 1/31/08, $someone wrote: ... >We should know by now that isolated resorts ARE NOT ACCEPTABLE as >meeting locations. Even if they're vaguely close to cool places like >Dublin. > >It's not too late. Please cancel the meeting now. Even if it costs a >bunch of money and means we have to skip that meeting date. > >Yes, I'm serious. > >And no, I don't play golf, which appears to be the entire focus of >this sort of location. ... >_______________________________________________ >Ietf mailing list >Ietf@xxxxxxxx >http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf [1] this is in the archives: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg50069.html. -- -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Edward Lewis +1-571-434-5468 NeuStar Mail archives, backups. Sometimes I think the true beneficiaries of standards work are the suppliers of disk drives. _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf