Re: Facts, please, not handwaving [Re: Its about mandate RE: Why cant the IETF embrace an open Election Process]

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>>>>> "Jefsey" == Jefsey Morfin <jefsey@xxxxxxxxxx> writes:

I think the following is  a good summary of our quandary.

    Jefsey> At 11:17 20/09/2006, Dave Cridland wrote:
    >> Well, I think there's a lot of confusion between the statement "We,
    >> as engineers trying to maintain our scientific integrity as a whole,
    >> consider this specification a good thing and recommend it", and "We,
    >> as disinterested engineers trying to be practical and document what
    >> gets used, note this specification is widely used".

    Jefsey> The first statement best matches RFC 3935, except that "we" should be
    Jefsey> read as the IETF "leaders" (what is realistic in a rough consensus
    Jefsey> approach). The problem ("the near-impossibility of getting an
    Jefsey> informed consensus opinion on a complex subject out of a community of
    Jefsey> several thousand people in a short time") and this soliution is
    Jefsey> documented in part 3.

    Jefsey> Also, "The Internet isn't value-neutral, and neither is the IETF. We
    Jefsey> want the Internet to be useful for communities that share our
    Jefsey> commitment   to openness and fairness.  We embrace technical concepts
    Jefsey> such as decentralized control, edge-user empowerment and sharing
    Jefsey> of   resources, because those concepts resonate with the core values
    Jefsey> of the IETF community.  These concepts have little to do with
    Jefsey> the   technology that's possible, and much to do with the technology
    Jefsey> that we choose to create." However,"we are also constrained by the
    Jefsey> principle of competence: Where we do not have, and cannot gather, the
    Jefsey> competence needed to make technically sound standards, we should not
    Jefsey> attempt to take the leadership." because "Sometimes the IETF
    Jefsey> leverages standards that are defined and maintained by other
    Jefsey> organizations; we continue to work with those organizations on their
    Jefsey> standards and do not attempt to take them over."

    Jefsey> This creates many difficulties in world reality which is under
    Jefsey> distributed control, and therefore edge-user centric, working by
    Jefsey> subsidiarity, using concerted procedures and consensus, while we may
    Jefsey> chose to select parts of external standards and contradict their
    Jefsey> inner logic because they are not based on the same core values, or do
    Jefsey> not share our vision of these values.

    Jefsey> The second statement seems therefore more appropriate. However this
    Jefsey> is only a reporting mission and we miss the IEB (Internet Engineer's
    Jefsey> Book) publication adequate system. We should therefore target some
    Jefsey> intermediate statement between "influence" and "report" and consider
    Jefsey> the RFC 3935 principles of responsiblity and competence, and the most
    Jefsey> inportant sentence "the benefit of a standard to the Internet is in
    Jefsey> interoperability - that multiple products implementing a standard are
    Jefsey> able to work together in order to deliver valuable functions to the
    Jefsey> Internet's users" remembering the quote above "Sometimes the IETF
    Jefsey> leverages standards that are defined and maintained by other
    Jefsey> organizations; we continue to work with those organizations on their
    Jefsey> standards and do not attempt to take them over". Interoperability
    Jefsey> must not be only within our own standards, but with the standards we
    Jefsey> leverage" we have the duty to respect and to know.

    Jefsey> jfc










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