Re: Why cant the IETF embrace an open Election Process ratherthansome

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----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joel M. Halpern" <joel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
To: <ietf@xxxxxxxx>
Sent: Thursday, September 14, 2006 5:39 PM
Subject: RE: Why cant the IETF embrace an open Election Process
ratherthansome


> Clearly, we could choose to do that.
> There are several drawbacks.
>
> Firstly, the rough consensus, to the degree it is observable, favors
> the current approach.

By those allowed to participate and vote - not by the breadth of those
participating in the IETF itself.

> Secondly, there is a significant and important portion of the IETF
> which does not meet the NOMCOM criteria.  This was consider an
> unfortunate but inevitable effect selecting some criteria.

Which means that the NOMCOM selection process excludes people it represents.

>  To
> counterbalance this, the NOMCOM itself is supposed to consider the
> needs of the entire IETF, not just that portion which attends meetings.

I would suggest that you review fiduciary responsibility which is what you
are talking about.

> Thirdly, voting itself has many drawbacks, and as Fred Baker observed
> recently, is liable to focus on popularity rather than on
> effectiveness for the job.

Which means that the Sponsor's  and others who have bet the bank on their
retaining control of the IESG could lose that control. Too bad.

>
> I doubt that in the brief consideration based on your note I have
> found all of the problems.
>
> If there were a serious problem with the NOMCOM process, it would
> probably be sensible to evaluate whether the drawbacks of an election
> mode would be worth whatever problems it solved.  However, without a
> clear statement of problems with the NOMCOM process, I can not see
> any point in trying to evaluate an alternative.  Elections are not in
> and of themselves "good".  For civil governments, they seem to be the
> best choice we can find.
>
> Yours,
> Joel M. Halpern
>
> At 08:09 PM 9/14/2006, Hallam-Baker, Phillip wrote:
> >There is no need to define the concept of membership. The term
> >'membership' is essentially a legal term and the courts will define
> >it according to their convenience. One can be a member without
> >having a vote and can have a vote without being a member.
> >
> >Under English Common Law saying that a thing is so does not make it
> >so. If a an agreement that meets the legal definition of a
> >partnership agreement explicitly states that it is not a partnership
> >agreement that does not make it any less a partnership nor does it
> >extinguish the liabilities, &ct. of such.
> >
> >
> >All that is needed to hold an election is to define the franchise.
> >The franchise in this case would be defined in the same manner as
> >the NOMCON is at present.
>
>
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