Thanks Dean - Which brings up the issues of liability and agency... Especially since there is no HOLD HARMLESS component of the Boilerplate. Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dean Anderson" <dean@xxxxxxx> To: "Theodore Tso" <tytso@xxxxxxx> Cc: "todd glassey" <tglassey@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>; <dcrocker@xxxxxxxx>; <ietf@xxxxxxxx> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 4:25 PM Subject: Re: Crisis of Faith - was Re: Adjusting the Nomcom process > IETF volunteer staff are employees of the ISOC. That they aren't paid > may make them gratuitous employees (see below). Gratuitous employees are > still employees with just about the same obligations and duties of paid > employees. I just happen to have the Restatement of the Law of Agency > open: > > ====================== > § 16 Consideration > The relation of principal and agent can be created although neither > party receives consideration. > > § 16 Comment b. Gratuitous agents > [...] However, during the existence of the relation a gratuitous agent > has the same power to affect the principal.s relations with third > persons as if he were paid, and his liabilities to and rights against > third persons are the same. Further, he may be liable to the principal > for failing to perform a promise on which the principal has relied (see > § 378), or for harm caused by his careless performance (see § 379), and > he is subject to all the paid agent.s duties of loyalty. See § 387, > Comment c. Likewise a gratuitous agent has the same rights of indemnity > against the principal as has the paid agent. See §§ 438-440. > ====================== > > > IETF employees also receive benefits such as insurance, educational > benefits, and sometimes travel benefits. This makes them paid employees > > ====================== > § 441 comment d. Non-gratuitous services not paid for in money. A person > may act for compensation and not gratuitously although he receives no > money or other thing for his services, as where one learning a trade or > profession renders services in consideration of the opportunity offered > him to gain skill. Likewise, the services of an agent whose compensation > is contingent upon a condition which does not occur are not given > gratuitously. In both cases the one acting has the duties and rights of > an agent acting for compensation, either in an action of contract, if > the principal commits a breach of contract, or, under some > circumstances, in an action for restitution. > ====================== > > > > > > On Sun, 10 Sep 2006, Theodore Tso wrote: > > > On Sun, Sep 10, 2006 at 09:44:12AM -0700, todd glassey wrote: > > > BRIAN - you have totally missed the point - No offense meant, but > > > your personal word nor any other IETF/IESG staff member is what is not to > > > be relied on - whether you are telling the truth or not is irrelevant - the > > > process has a hole in it large enough to drive a Mack truck through. > > > > Todd, it's clear you don't have any faith in anyone on the IESG (they > > aren't "staff", by the way, they are volunteers), but at the same > > time, the vast majority of those who have spoken on this thread have > > clearly expressed that they believe that all concerned were acting in > > good faith, and that no harm was done. > > > > You may not believe that, but as a suggestion, your constant and > > strident attacks quite frankly weaken your own credibility. So if you > > do have a particular goal of changing how the IETF works, being a bit > > more thoughtful about suggesting changes will tend to probably serve > > your goals better than your current style of attacking people like > > Brian and other IESG members. > > > > Regards, > > > > - Ted > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Ietf mailing list > > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > > > > > -- > Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? > www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service > 617 344 9000 > > > _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf