Randy Presuhn writes: > A more accurate restatement is that some good people have > already left because participation in the IETF was sufficiently > unpleasant for them, and that other productive people are on the > verge of leaving for the same reason. Well, if they can't stand the heat in the kitchen, maybe they should leave. There isn't any venue in which real discussions with real and different points of view can take place without some sort of conflict that might ruffle the feathers of particularly delicate individuals. If it's that stressful for them, they probably shouldn't be involved in such discussions. Trying to remove all the substance of the discussions just to avoid offending the hypersensitive makes no logical sense. > How much snake oil and vitriol one is willing to tolerate varies > with the individual and how much they're rewarded (in one > way or another) for spending time in this snake pit. You think these lists are snake pits? They seem awfully tame to me. And I've seen much more snake-infested venues produce useful results, so the serpents are not necessarily obstacles. > I know first-hand of several very good engineers who have stopped > participating here, and have cited the level of nastiness as a key > motivating factor. Well, there will always be more good engineers. _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf