Re: Questions for those in favor of PR-Actions in general

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On 06:22 26/01/2006, Randy Presuhn said:
I know first-hand of several very good engineers who have stopped
participating here, and have cited the level of nastiness as a key
motivating factor.   The question is of finding a balance between the
human need for civility, and our willingness to extract work from
the uncivil.

Dear Randy,
good question. We all know many cases (I get mails from unknowns due to the PR-action). I think there is a structural response and two cases.

The structural response is that people are who they are. Internet Engineers are humanly no different from others. Those who cannot work with average others will probably not produce a good work in such a community. If you do not have the guts to affront the whole IETF, who will take your proposition for innovation seriously? It a sort of community quality control PR self-action. The only problem is when the one ready to face the wolfpack is technically loony, or out of phase with the IETF objectives. IAB appeal should address that issue, long before any PR action. I accept it is never nice for a seasoned expert to be barked at by a young puppy, or a stupid opponent. But, a good seasoned expert is a good seasoned expert because he learned to take benefit from everything. Also, it permits everyone to know if a debate is biased or personal, if the raised technical issues are discussed or not.

The two different cases depends on the real motivation and impact (of a person or of debate). Does it belongs to the IETF scope or not. This is still to the IAB to decide. In the case of the WG-ltru you have been embarked in one of the seldom IETF cases (IP addresses numbering plan, DNS root are the only two comparable, and less important, issues I can think of) where the world is concerned. All the more than in the two other cases, they concern Internet issues (IP and DNS). Here the matter concerns the humanity core (languages are its most important common property). You dealt with a major source of power and money: the control of the IANA registry of the text industries. Still more important to the mankind and economy than music, films and games. I think you should have initially asked the IAN guidance I have eventually asked.

In my case, one of thre reasons of this threat, the controlling group used it standard protection first: initial uncivility. This does not work with me. Also, a private control of the IANA language tag registry would kill my job. So, I survived them. What is most interesting is that people who had been nastily ejected asked me to represent them, or helped me. Also, that people who felt unsecure asked me to be their lighting rod. I reported I observed the same effect with the PR-action.

This being said, I agree that some working tools and procedures, a jury of honor, etc. would probably help the IETF. But this seem beyond reach due to its communitu hysteresis, and it might affect its time proven capacities.
jfc



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