Hi - >From: nick.staff@xxxxxxxxxxx >Sent: Jan 25, 2006 6:57 PM >To: Frank Ellermann <nobody@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>, ietf@xxxxxxxx >Subject: Questions for those in favor of PR-Actions in general ... >Claim: The claim that all the good people will leave if the noise >level is too great and if stubborn people with limited technical ability aren't banned. A more accurate restatement is that some good people have already left because participation in the IETF was sufficiently unpleasant for them, and that other productive people are on the verge of leaving for the same reason. How much snake oil and vitriol one is willing to tolerate varies with the individual and how much they're rewarded (in one way or another) for spending time in this snake pit. >Question: If that claim is accurate, then since there were no PR-Actions >for the first 20 years of the IETF one would have to assume that all >the good people left long ago (years and years) and the ones left >here now are the ones that drove the good engineers away? I know first-hand of several very good engineers who have stopped participating here, and have cited the level of nastiness as a key motivating factor. The question is of finding a balance between the human need for civility, and our willingness to extract work from the uncivil. Randy _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf