Brian, I think it is somewhat unfair to say that we have not tried the steps you outline below. Where we run into trouble is when different sets of people disagree as to which of the steps we are currently working on. Quite frankly, I believe we can address the second step (which of the requirements are not met today?) with a firm "none." This is - IMO - the basis for the apparent stodgy resistance to change. -- Eric --> -----Original Message----- --> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] --> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter --> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:36 AM --> To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand --> Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx --> Subject: Engineering our way out of a brown paper bag [Re: --> Consensus based on reading tea leaves] --> --> Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: --> > --> > --> > --On mandag, januar 02, 2006 18:10:15 +0200 Yaakov Stein --> > <yaakov_s@xxxxxxx> wrote: --> > --> >> The only thing I am sure about is --> >> that --> >> consensus on this list is for keeping everything exactly --> as it is. --> > --> > --> > I'm pretty sure there's no such consensus. --> > --> > I do, however, see a rather strong --> consensus-of-the-speakers against --> > using MS-Word document format for anything "official". --> --> I think we need to tackle this whole issue, if we do decide to --> tackle it, in a much more systematic way. --> --> - what are our functional requirements? --> - which of them are not met today? --> - what are the possible solutions, and what is their practical --> and operational cost? --> - which, if any, solutions should we adopt, on what timescale? --> --> I believe that if we took a systematic approach like that, the issue --> of how we determine consensus would be broken into enough small --> steps that it really wouldn't be an issue. --> --> Brian --> --> --> _______________________________________________ --> Ietf mailing list --> Ietf@xxxxxxxx --> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf --> _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf