I agree. As usual we seem to be stuck in an infinite loop on this mailing list with the cycle being somewhere between 6 months and 3 years. Eliot Gray, Eric wrote: > Brian, > > I think it is somewhat unfair to say that we have > not tried the steps you outline below. Where we run into > trouble is when different sets of people disagree as to > which of the steps we are currently working on. > > Quite frankly, I believe we can address the second > step (which of the requirements are not met today?) with > a firm "none." > > This is - IMO - the basis for the apparent stodgy > resistance to change. > > -- > Eric > > --> -----Original Message----- > --> From: ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx [mailto:ietf-bounces@xxxxxxxx] > --> On Behalf Of Brian E Carpenter > --> Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 7:36 AM > --> To: Harald Tveit Alvestrand > --> Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx > --> Subject: Engineering our way out of a brown paper bag [Re: > --> Consensus based on reading tea leaves] > --> > --> Harald Tveit Alvestrand wrote: > --> > > --> > > --> > --On mandag, januar 02, 2006 18:10:15 +0200 Yaakov Stein > --> > <yaakov_s@xxxxxxx> wrote: > --> > > --> >> The only thing I am sure about is > --> >> that > --> >> consensus on this list is for keeping everything exactly > --> as it is. > --> > > --> > > --> > I'm pretty sure there's no such consensus. > --> > > --> > I do, however, see a rather strong > --> consensus-of-the-speakers against > --> > using MS-Word document format for anything "official". > --> > --> I think we need to tackle this whole issue, if we do decide to > --> tackle it, in a much more systematic way. > --> > --> - what are our functional requirements? > --> - which of them are not met today? > --> - what are the possible solutions, and what is their practical > --> and operational cost? > --> - which, if any, solutions should we adopt, on what timescale? > --> > --> I believe that if we took a systematic approach like that, the issue > --> of how we determine consensus would be broken into enough small > --> steps that it really wouldn't be an issue. > --> > --> Brian > --> > --> > --> _______________________________________________ > --> Ietf mailing list > --> Ietf@xxxxxxxx > --> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > --> > > _______________________________________________ > Ietf mailing list > Ietf@xxxxxxxx > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf > > _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf