On Mon, 26 Sep 2005, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > No, but on the other hand WGs, the IESG and the IETF as a whole are fully > entitled to defend themselves against denial of service attacks. There have been only 2 denial of service attacks: 1) When Dan Bernstein's subscription address was posted by Randy Bush on the DNSEXT WG in violation of list and IETF policy, making possible forged unsubscriptions, denying service to Dr. Bernstein on the issue of Anycast Extension. 2) Kessens' instant attack trying to suppress valid technical criticism of ISC's F Root operation, also on the issue of Anycast Extension. > If someone persistently sends off-topic mail over a long period, or mail > making acccusations that are clearly outside the IETF's scope, or simply > repetitions of the same point over and over, that is in effect a DoS and that > is why we have RFC 3683. True statements generally, but this hasn't happened, and this does not describe the current situation. My emails are plainly on-topic. Dan Bernsteins' email were plainly on-topic, and relevant to current issues discussions within the IETF. Plainly off-topic and plainly disruptive is school-yard name-calling, as has been repeatedly documented. > And to be very clear, if two parties are at odds outside the IETF, that must > stay outside the IETF. Inside the IETF (i.e. on our mailing lists and at > our meetings) there is no place for external disputes. And of course, it is up to the IETF upper management to make sure that a WG chair employeed by one company (ISC) does not abuse his IETF position in that dispute. The IETF has clearly failed in that aspect, by allowing Rob Austein to continue using his official IETF role to defame Av8 Internet. Plainly school-yard namecalling on the IETF lists is within "scope", and prohibited by both the IETF Code of Conduct and the ISOC Code of Conduct. Plainly abuse of privileges by IETF WG Chairs and Area Directors is within scope. > WG Chairs, the Area Directors, and the IESG do have authority here. Indeed they have not only authority, but also legal responsibility and legal obligation to comply with the rules, but they haven't acted in the IETF interest or acted according to the well-documented IETF and ISOC rules. This conflict of interest and lack of fidelity to the IETF and ISOC rules is a scandal for the IETF, and for the ISOC. Dean Anderson Av8 Internet, Inc -- Av8 Internet Prepared to pay a premium for better service? www.av8.net faster, more reliable, better service 617 344 9000 _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf