Re: bcp-02: Section 3.4

[avri@xxxxxxx]

Hi,


On 12 dec 2004, at 15.06, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote:

> I guess I am of the "less formal" type of person.

Well, in terms of type of person, I am rather informal myself.  but in 
this case I think we are talking about a process that can serve the 
IETF community and I believe it needs a certain formality.

> We can send omcplaints/concerns ot IAOC.

And I just look for a statement under their duties that says they 
receive and act on these complaints/concerns.

> We ssume IAOC will handle/act on it

I don't think it is safe to assume.  If assumptions of people doing the 
right thing were always sufficient, we would not need most of the text 
in this BCP.

> If they do not, we can start the recall process on them

I would prefer to not have to rely on that big a hammer.

> Maybe I am just too simple minded.

Somehow, I doubt that.

a.

> Bert
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: avri@xxxxxxx [mailto:avri@xxxxxxx]
> > Sent: Sunday, December 12, 2004 15:17
> > To: Wijnen, Bert (Bert)
> > Cc: ietf@xxxxxxxx; Sam Hartman
> > Subject: Re: bcp-02: Section 3.4
> >
> >
> > Well,
> >
> > A letter of complaint requires no response unless there is something
> > that formalizes the requirement of response.
> >
> > And if there is no procedure indicating that the IAOC needs to pay
> > attention to a letter of complain, that decision, i.e the one
> > to ignore
> > letters of complain, cannot be appealed.
> >
> > So, as I see it, without a formalized process of complaint/appeal of
> > IAD actions we are left with no avenue to deal with problems
> > other then
> > by the yearly nomcom process and the IETF list.
> >
> >
> > On 11 dec 2004, at 22.18, Wijnen, Bert (Bert) wrote:
> >
> > > Avri writes:
> > > > Unless I am missing something in the document, there is no
> > way for a
> > > > member of the IETf community to formally ask the IAOC to review the
> > > > decisions of the IAD.
> > >
> > > Since when would you not be allowed to send an email/complaint to
> > > the IAOC ??
> > >
> > > I guess you meant to say that there is not "formal way" to do so,
> >
> > yeah, that is what i explicitly said.
> >
> > > but we're all adults and we CAN communicate, can we not?
> >
> > what does being an adult have to do with it?
> > I don't understand.  The issue is that there is no way to
> > make the IAOC
> > take notice of the communication.
> >
> > > I.e. I do not see why we would need to make a formal procedure for
> > > this.
> >
> > Because the lack of formalization leaves the IETF community without a
> > means to appeal decisions.  And this decreases the level of
> > accountability.
> >
> > And of the things I thought that were driving the entire AdminRest
> > process was the need for transparency and accountability.  And as I
> > understand accountability in the IETF, it involves handling appeals
> > from the IETF community.
> >
> > a.
>
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