Jeff, In terms of being "inside the ISP space", I would include all of those people who build software and hardware for ISPs such as router, switch, firewall, etc.. My taxonomy intended to differentiate between app/host vendors and IP-transport/router-switch vendors. Apologies to all in my broad brush polar coloring of the world. I actually disagree: I contend that IPv6 can happen without the ISPs. Why couldn't the entire world end up running IPv6 on top of IPv4? What is the total number of ISP demarcations needed for everyone in the work to interconnect with the Internet? If at some later point in time the ISPs join the IPv6 party, then the world will be better off. (I am of course arguing at the ends of the spectrum of possibilities, reality might live somewhere in between) Regards, peterf (an app/host kind of guy ... :-), but I used to be in the IP-transport biz) _______________________________________________ Ietf@xxxxxxxx https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf