On 10/1/2024 9:55 AM, Vittorio Bertola
wrote:
Il 01/10/2024 15:22 CEST Christian Hopps <chopps@xxxxxxxxxx> ha scritto: I'm having some trouble squaring the softer words like "discomfort" and "acceptable" with the quoted text from Michael StJohns which is terrifying. Perhaps the IETF LLC should more prominently advise people from the US and Canada of the dangers that have been highlighted here and may exist for them if they still choose to attend IETF 125 in person. Can you imagine the discomfort we will feel if people have exit bans placed on them or they are thrown in a foreign prison rather than returning home?You and Michael made me curious, so I checked the official advice for my own country, Italy ( https://www.viaggiaresicuri.it/find-country/country/CHN ). It starts with "The country is essentially stable and safe." There is zero mention of exit bans or arbitrary detention or searches in hotel rooms etc. The only risk of detention that they mention is if you are involved in a brawl in nightlife areas or if you do not obey police orders. There is advice about not joining public political rallies or distributing religious material for the Falun Gong. For the rest, the warnings are about travel to remote areas, pollution, flooding, recreational drugs, fraud, and petty crime in general. I have no idea of what other countries say, but I guess that the assessment really depends on the country you are from. -- vb.
Hi Vittorio -
Google is not great at finding websites in languages other than
the querying persons language so thanks for the reference above.
But note that the OSAC China report I pointed to also had similar language to start:
Chinese cities are generally safe when compared to other global cities. The ubiquity of police and security personnel serves to deter most serious crime, while petty crime occurs with some regularity. The income disparity in Chinese society has been a source of social friction and is a root cause of much of the economic crime experienced in large Chinese cities. This includes pickpocketing, credit card fraud, and various financial scams, many of which target foreign (including U.S.) travelers due to perceptions of wealth.
And that's what I would have expected. But the Italian site doesn't appear to go any deeper than a generic tourist might care about. Not to say it's wrong, just that it might be less complete that we might want for a source.
And I believe you are somewhat correct about "depends on the country you are from" - which is its own form of problem. It might be useful to gather the websites from the top 20 countries attending in person and see if there's a common theme.
Thanks! Mike
