John > On 11 Jun 2024, at 19:52, John C Klensin <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: > > And, btw, I think we need to be very careful about proposals for > blanket bans as well. We have several examples in the history of the > IETF of people who have regularly been unprofessional, obnoxious, and > disruptive but who have still made important technical contributions, > maybe ones that no one else could have made. Without meaning to criticise you for holding this view, I do want to note that I’ve heard this same claim in different fora for 20+ years and it’s clear to me that this a particularly pernicious form of survivorship bias. To explain - people who are unprofessional, disruptive, and obnoxious create a toxic culture that actively drives people away. In my experience there are always people in that excluded group who would be more valuable than the person doing the excluding, but we rarely get to know that because of the exclusion and instead see the contribution of the person who survived the very toxic culture they themselves helped to create. It’s no wonder that history and modern corporate culture is littered with examples of mediocre talents who intentionally create a toxic culture to ensure their own elevation. There’s a famous quote I’m fond of - "The culture of any organization is shaped by the worst behavior the leader is willing to tolerate". In the case of the IETF, the "leader" is the community through consensus and so long as the community tolerates and defends the worst behaviour, then it is actively shaping a culture that it simultaneously laments. Jay -- Jay Daley IETF Executive Director exec-director@xxxxxxxx -- last-call mailing list -- last-call@xxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to last-call-leave@xxxxxxxx
