Keith Moore wrote:
IMO, constructive disagreement would have been far better than calling out someone (as a warning to others?) for violating a hopelessly vague rule about "uncivil" speech.
While "unprofessional" or "uncivil" is not a well defined word, it is a good idea to confirm what it means within IETF, which is what we did just recently in 2019. See my post on Tue, 15 October 2019 07:10 UTC: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/lBs5-1u3asjocT56PoQEdnv1m2g/ : Keith Moore wrote: : > The words "They also include criticizing an idea in an insulting or : > excessively hostile manner" are troubling. I realize that one may : > criticize an idea in such a way as to effectively be critical of the : > person proposing the idea. And yet, it is essential that people be : > able to discuss ideas candidly, and sometimes to criticize ideas : > emphatically. I believe it's inappropriate to impugn a : > participant's motive without supporting evidence of that motive. But : > I don't believe it's wrong to point out any problem with an idea : > itself, nor with potential ill effects of an idea, nor even with the : > appearance of an idea. Sometimes this is a fine line, but it's : > essential that the SAAs not interfere with vigorous discussion of : > relevant ideas. : : Let me try. : : IPv6 with unnecessarily lengthy 16B addresses without valid : technical reasoning only to make network operations prohibitively : painful is a garbage protocol. : : LISP, which perform ID to locator mapping, which is best : performed by DNS, in a lot less scalable way than DNS : is a garbage protocol. which initiated no action by SAAs or an IETF chair. So, at that time, no one thought my mail above violation of rfc3005. I confirmed it more recently in 2021 with https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/3A4tWHZY_fdc1Ecw9G_ZY0wu3Ag/ and https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ietf/WG27_ltRm7i7IsjA9f6fWwV8XOE/
I miss the days when IETF was often capable of having constructive technical discussions, even when some participants' frustration was evident, without the need for moderators or Tone Police.
Why, do you think, the days have gone? Masataka Ohta
