Lloyd,
At least on this particular narrow matter, I think we are in
complete agreement. More inline below...
--On Monday, 03 October, 2022 05:17 +1100 Lloyd W
<lloyd.wood@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> John,
>
> my point is that those in leadership positions can't afford to
> wear blinkers. odd to see senior contributors say 'oh, I muted
> dan years ago'. that just lets the problem fester.
It not only lets a problem fester by keeping it off their radar
but means that potentially substantive and valuable
Contributions don't get the attention they deserve. Now, if I
were giving advice to someone who was prone to overly
insensitive, aggressive, or hostile language, I'd recommend
avoiding that... at least as much because many people will just
stop reading when the level of that noise gets too high for them
as because the IETF has agreed that such behavior is
inappropriate. FWIW, I've been given similar advice several
times to avoid postings more than a paragraph or so long. I
don't do that well and I have seen signs that some people don't
read my longer postings and might have even blocked me,
presumably as a result. But that is ultimately a choice I make,
just as someone who continues with abusive or disruptive
behavior makes choices that may eventually get them blocked or
involves in PR-actions.
> if you're on the iesg, you're on the ietf list, and expected
> to read it.
Yes, I think so. See Joel's, Adam's, and Brian's comments.
> But we've also already seen how a chair who didn't like
> reading that list expressed their personal preferences. The
> Sergeants at Arms became their personal immediate filtering
> and muting mechanism. As opposed to, say, clicking 'mute
> thread'.
While we probably agree on the symptoms of what happened, I
think it is undesirable to start attributing motives ... at
least unless you have far more insider information than I do.
> I'd prefer that the iesg discussed and reached rough consensus
> on serious actions to be taken on contributors, on a timescale
> somewhere between trigger-happy and torpid. If comparing
> personal thread/person muting filters is one useful input
> there, so be it.
Hmm. It would be really interesting to ask the community how
many people have filtered out/ muted postings from a particular
individual. "Interesting" does not imply "good idea", if only
because blocking and/or PR-decisions should be based on
evaluations of actual behavior and its effects on the community
and not on popularity contests.
> so, Dan didn't make any friends in the ietf, then?
See immediately above.
best,
john
