--On Sunday, 02 October, 2022 11:14 -0700 Eric Rescorla <ekr@xxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sun, Oct 2, 2022 at 11:03 AM John C Klensin > <john-ietf@xxxxxxx> wrote: > >> >> >> --On Sunday, 02 October, 2022 10:33 -0700 Eric Rescorla >> <ekr@xxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> > ... >> > In particular, my experience is that it's far earlier to >> > address misbehavior early on with smaller interventions than >> > to wait until there is a long pattern of misbehavior and >> > then ban >> > someone. Nominally, we do have such mechanisms (SAA, etc.) >> > but, they have proven so difficult to apply that the >> > nominally last resort of the PR Action instead becomes in >> > practice the only resort in practice. >> >> Based on observations in recent months, I have somewhat more >> confidence in the SAA mechanism than you do although I would >> have agreed with you a couple of years ago, As I said >> earlier today, I'm concerned about their perceptions of what >> they can or should do when the smaller and more private >> interventions (even publicly suspending someone from a >> particular list for a short time) fail, but a small bit of >> tuning would fix that. >> >> Situations in which all of the discretion --about whether to >> act and how-- is vested in a single WG chair or list >> maintainer without obligations to consult, e.g., either a >> co-chair or AD, may be another matter. Without criticizing >> anyone, I tend to not trust any one person's judgment >> (including my own) in isolation or without consultation, >> especially if they perceive themselves as being abused. >> > > Do you have some mechanisms in mind or are you merely speaking > in the abstract? > > For instance, RFC 3934 explicitly requires the approval of the > AD for posting rights removal, > even for 30 days. Moreover, such a decision is appealable. > > https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc3934#section-2 More in the abstract. The existing mechanisms, including that one, should, if everyone does their jobs, considers the various balances carefully, and is extra-careful when the circumstances might lead to claims of bias, be adequate (or better). And, of course, the appeal mechanism (which, unlike recalls, which I think came up elsewhere, in this thread, are an appropriate and, IMO, effective remedy when those involved get things wrong or even just don't pay sufficient attention. john -- last-call mailing list last-call@xxxxxxxx https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/last-call
