Re: Bad/Good ideas and damage control by experienced participants

[Miles Fidelman <mfidelman@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Tim Bray wrote:

The below from Tom Petch captures my opinion.  I have sympathy with more or less all the notes from all the factions in this discussion, which instantly stops when they say or imply “… and that’s why it’s OK to be rude.”  I just don’t think that’s ever OK in the context of an open-to-all mailing list representing the public face of something that claims to be a standards organization.  That includes when discouraging a dumb idea that is being proposed for the seventeenth time.

On Wed, Jun 22, 2022 at 1:32 AM tom petch <daedulus@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

I think that that exemplifies a universal truth that is often missed and
is perhaps the core of this discussion.

First, criticise the behaviour never the person.
Second, own it; not 'that is stupid' but 'I think that ...' ideally with
logical reasons, never with emotional ones.

It took me a long time to realise how much nicer the world is when I
remember this and, even now, I sometimes need to remind myself (as in
opposing the adoption of an I-D which I am about to do).  I would
sacrifice all the spell-checkers in the world for a reasonableness
checker along these lines.

Absolutely agreed.

What bugs me, though, is when folks complain loudly, vociferously, and .... rudely ... about some post or poster (whether criticizing the behavior or the person).  Particularly, when that complaint escalates to calls for moderation or expulsion.

And, even more so, when such complaints escalate to drown out actual, substantive discussion on the matter at hand.

How much more effective it would be if someone posted a periodic "netiquitte reminder," and maybe "how to ask good questions / craft substantive responses" post -- and then folks took rude people to task PRIVATELY.  100 private "you asshole" emails - or "you could do better" - might do a lot more for the cause, than those same 100 emails posted to the main list, and endless discussions like this one.  So what if a few rude comments slip by, it's a lot easier eyes & fingers to delete the occasional rude message, than to deal with 100s of messages about that one.

Miles Fidelman

-- 
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.  .... Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works. 
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why. 
In our lab, theory and practice are combined: 
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown