I'm going to skip most of your message in this response because it's not relevant to the real point I'm trying to make, and because I think that point is very, very important: > > Is that an aspect of our long-term culture that we would be better > > off changing? > > > > I think we do, and it is, and getting offended and claiming ageism > > when someone points that out doesn't help. Let's look at ourselves > > and see how we can do better. > > But do we have over-critical people in IETF who are too eager to shoot > ideas down? Sure we do, at least IMO. But of those people, why > penalize only those who have grey beards, or who are older males? Why > are those things relevant? What purpose does that serve? I'm not arguing that issue. I think the people Tim quoted (or paraphrased) were pointing out where they saw the bad treatment coming from. The issue to me isn't *who* is doing it, as I really don't care to focus on that. It's that it's a long-term culture that they're seeing play out. I agree with that: I think we DO have a long-term culture of accepting bad behaviour toward each other, and I think we need to change that culture. And we need to do it clearly, strongly, and as a group. "No, stop: That's not how we treat each other! DIsagree, even vigorously. But don't be nasty about it. Barry
