On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 04:11:19AM +0100, Barry Leiba wrote: > For what it's worth, we have collectively used "greybeard" to refer to > long-time IETF participants, for various reasons and don't further > this particular conversation, and it's not fair to say that we can use > it to refer to ourselves but others can't use it to refer to us. We > can have a separate discussion about whether it's a non-inclusive term > that's an artifact of the past and better let go, but at this point > it's neither ageist nor misandrist to use it. FWIW, I do from time to time refer to a somewhat well-known comic form of this meme: https://dilbert.com/strip/1995-06-24 Usually on the Postfix-users list, when the problem sure looks like the OP has an under-powered or much too dated system. This is both somewhat self-deprecating, but at the same time exactly what the comic is about. I do hope that the strip in question does not become taboo... -- Viktor.