RE: Complaint on abuse of DNSOP lists

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Speaking as OPS AD who is currently on-line.
The other OPS AD (David Kessens) is in the air and so is Harald.

Please refrain from this discussion on the DNSOP mailing list.

I have seen the complaint and will investigate and come with an
answer. The issue was between Dean and one of Rob Austein's email
addresses, so I do not see a need to discuss this on this mailing
list. So I declare this subject as a topic that is NOT a DNSOP
mailing list topic. Pls refrain from posting to this list on
this topic.

Thanks,
Bert (OPS AD)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dean Anderson [mailto:dean@xxxxxxx]
> Sent: maandag 10 mei 2004 22:10
> To: Pekka Savola
> Cc: Harald Tveit Alvestrand; ietf@xxxxxxxx; dnsop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: Complaint on abuse of DNSOP lists
> 
> 
> On Mon, 10 May 2004, Pekka Savola wrote:
> 
> > On Mon, 10 May 2004, Dean Anderson wrote:
> > > Point of order, please
> > > 
> > > It seems that WG co-chair has begun to use an email 
> address that is 
> > > defaming Av8 Internet, Inc by returning business email to 
> users of Av8 
> > > Internet claiming that Av8 Internet has hijacked some 
> address space.
> > > 
> > > Av8 Internet hereby demands that the IETF immediately end 
> this behavior
> > > and halt the defamation of Av8 Internet, Inc by IETF 
> representatives.  
> > > IETF representatives must use email addresses that are 
> not configured for
> > > defamation of Av8 Internet, Inc.
> > 
> > If you look at the message, you will note that it is a 
> bounce from the
> > WG co-chair's _personal_ email address, directly to your email
> > address.
> 
> Actually, it bounces this way to all Av8 Internet Customers, 
> not just to
> me.  But it was a bounce to a message Mr. Austein posted on 
> DNSOP. It was
> not private business. It was IETF business.
> 
> Further, by reviewing the archives of DNSOP, I have found that Mr.  
> Austein's home address is <sra+dnsop@xxxxxxxxxx>, which he has used
> exclusively for some time until March 1st of this year. He 
> first started
> using the ISC.ORG address on a message involving
> draft-ietf-dnsop-inadr-required. Perhaps coincidentally, this 
> draft is a
> pet project of Mr. Austeins, and one to which I (and many others) have
> raised serious objections regarding both misleading and 
> incorrect content
> and procedural irregularities.  The archives show that since 
> March 1st,
> 2004, Mr.  Austein has made all his DNSOP posts from sra@xxxxxxxx  
> 
> > I'd say that everyone has the right to choose what mail to 
> accept (or
> > not to accept).
> 
> They don't when they are conducting IETF business. IETF rules 
> require that
> participants not be excluded from IETF activities. WG chairs 
> and others
> cannot refuse email from participants.
> 
> As Joe Abley revealed previously, this configuration from 
> ISC.ORG isn't
> meant to actually block spam. The idea is to make Av8 
> Internet users have
> to seek other email addresses by which to contact them, and to obtain
> opportunities to defame Av8 Internet and perhaps others and 
> convince users
> to seek other services. This is unlawful.  Besides the defamation, it
> would is an illegal group boycott, and an unfair business practice.
> 
> Refusing email is one thing, though that is still not 
> permitted for IETF
> business.  Defamation by claiming addresses are hijacked is 
> quite another
> thing. This abuse of email addresses is unacceptable, and 
> illegal, and I
> can engage legal action if necessary to prevent an 
> organization like the
> IETF from permitting this abuse to continue.
> 
> Mr. Austein cannot be allowed to use the ISC.ORG address for IETF
> business.
> 
> > You might or might not have a point if this behaviour 
> happened on an 
> > IETF list, but that is not the case..
> 
> Actually, it is the case. This involves two IETF lists, and 
> the conduct of
> an IETF representative on the DNSOP list. My republishing of 
> Mr. Austein's
> defamation to the DNSOP and IETF list to make a complaint is a
> republishment for which Mr.  Austein and the IETF are legally 
> responsible
> under US defamation tort law.
> 
> Mr Austein as a representative of the IETF defamed Av8 
> Internet to me, to
> the customers of Av8 Internet, and to the readership of both 
> the IETF and
> DNSOP lists.  Mr. Austein is a co-chair of the IETF working 
> group.  This
> defamation came about through IETF working group business.
> 
> The IETF is responsible for the conduct of its representatives on its
> lists.  It is unlawful to permit its representatives to use addresses
> which are configured to defame IETF participants, and it is 
> against the
> IETF rules to refuse email from IETF participants.
> 
> Dean Anderson
> President
> Av8 Internet, Inc
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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