My problem with XML2RFC format is simple: I learned how to use SGML properly when working on HTML and the XML2RFC format breaks so many rules it is really hard to remember what the peculiarities are. HTML was well established when the format was proposed but everything had to be done different. The revised version is an improvement but it is a C++ solution, it can't address the fundamentally bad decisions of what it is built on. Nor can XML overcome all the idiocies of SGML.
What I suspect Larry was referring to when he said Microsoft has better tools for this is their collaboration tools rather than Word. Though I do like using Word because it has annotation features and change tracking built in.
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 10:49 AM Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Fri, Feb 26, 2021 at 2:06 AM Ladislav Lhotka <ladislav.lhotka@xxxxxx> wrote:On 26. 02. 21 8:36, Carsten Bormann wrote:
> On 2021-02-26, at 03:06, Larry Masinter <LMM@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> For collaboration, there's a generation of collaborative tools from Google Docs to Dropbox and Microsoft tools that are a lot better than GitHub for collaboration.
>
> I’m sorry, Larry, you’d have to have a very weird sense of “better” to believe that.
>
> I have had extensive exposure to the MS-Word type of “collaboration” (I was the editor of RFC 3095 which was done in MS-Word, with 16 collaborators). The English language does not have words to describe that experience.
+1
For me, one of the greatest virtues of the IETF work style has always
been that I wasn't forced to use MS Office (or similar software, which
is often even worse).
I think a lot of people would like to use Word because of wide spread use of MS Office in workplace. It is almost standard there. Appreciating this even Apple comes up with Office for MAC software.I disagree with those who say MS-Word collaboration is not good, that means you don't know Word well :)Having said that I have always preferred to use XML2RFC tool and continue to use it. I am sure some people will always be happy using Word.BehcetLada
>
> For hacking out a quick draft, shared editors like Google Docs are fine (we mostly use hedgedoc née codimd née hackmd for that, and it sure is fun). For structured, controlled collaboration in a large team, nothing beats VCS systems like git, and github has a lot of mindshare in the tools around that process (issue tracking etc.).
>
> It is simply hilarious to imagine the QUIC or HTTPBIS WGs typing away at a shared Google doc. That’s not how it works. Specs are code, and there is a good reason why creating good documents (like the core ones of the above WGs) benefits from experience in collaborating on code.
>
> Grüße, Carsten
>
--
Ladislav Lhotka
Head, CZ.NIC Labs
PGP Key ID: 0xB8F92B08A9F76C67
