Harald, HTA> Thanks for pointing this out, and giving me the chance of quoting what I HTA> said at the time... You might also want to consider how your posting was interpreted. Of course, it's probably just me who has these erroneous reactions from what you and other IESG members intend. I'm sure no one else has such problems with their over- or mis-interpretation anything said by folks on the IESG. >> My own version of the urgent needs is: I am hoping that folks will take my comments in the whole, rather than feeling the need to do a step-by-step bookkeeping process that "proves" we are or are not making all the right changes. My intent was to suggest some perspective and questions for things being proposed. >> 3. More accountable lines (and processes) of IETF management, so >> that things happen predictably, appropriately, and in the best >> interests of the IETF community HTA> Agreed. However, we have chosen to build an organization that depends on HTA> human judgment, not mechanistic decision-making I cannot even guess what prompts the "however" in your response. For that matter, I am sorry but I did not see how the rest of your comment related to the concern I was stating. On the off-chance you are suggesting that the involvement of humans means that we cannot seek to have -- and even to demand, and even better to achieve -- a more predictable decision process, then we have very different experiences with management processes. /d -- Dave Crocker <dcrocker-at-brandenburg-dot-com> Brandenburg InternetWorking <www.brandenburg.com> Sunnyvale, CA USA <tel:+1.408.246.8253>