Hi Nico and Viktor,
Thanks for the reminder. I had been meaning to follow Barbara's good example and unsubscribe, and your demonstration of the precisely the lack of respect and empathy that Alissa's message calls out was the perfect send-off.
I will be unsubscribing from this list after sending this message, and focusing my attention on what productive subgroups of the IETF still remain.
--Richard
Thanks for the reminder. I had been meaning to follow Barbara's good example and unsubscribe, and your demonstration of the precisely the lack of respect and empathy that Alissa's message calls out was the perfect send-off.
I will be unsubscribing from this list after sending this message, and focusing my attention on what productive subgroups of the IETF still remain.
--Richard
On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 10:11 PM Viktor Dukhovni <ietf-dane@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Aug 14, 2020, at 12:05 AM, Nico Williams <nico@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 09:48:30PM -0400, IETF Chair wrote:
>> I believe we wind up in this kind of situation over and over because
>> IETF participants have no shared norms about respecting each other or
>> demonstrating empathy towards one another. With no norms about
>> respecting one another as human beings, no value assigned to composing
>> thoughtful replies, and no expectation of simply treating each other
>> with kindness on the list, our discussions devolve into toxic, snarky,
>> knee-jerk back-and-forth. Without norms, processes like the one
>> established in RFC 3005 are not worth much.
>
> This is the least empathic message in all of this thread.
>
> Some of us have been quite polite, professional, and reasoned in our
> positions that do not support yours. We get no credit. Instead we see
> insinuations and bullying by the leadership and others.
Indeed not just some, but most.
I'd like to call on the SAA to advise the IETF Chair that the quoted
blanket smear on the character of the participants in the prior threads
is out of line, and an apology is owed to the IETF community, along with
an expectation that this sort of slander will not be repeated.
--
Viktor.
