Mike and Jim I really doubt anyone hear cares about either of your opinions on the matter. Can you please take this off-line and stop filling my inbox with this useless crap. Thanks -----Original Message----- From: Michael Hammer [mailto:mhammer@cisco.com] Sent: Thursday, March 27, 2003 10:29 AM To: Jim Fleming Cc: 'The IETF' Subject: Re: "...they didn't hide the fact that they were representing their employers..." ? Jim, I quickly read the web sites you cited and it is about stealing trade secrets. I didn't see any reference to federal employees. Lacking a more specific citation, I have to conclude that you are not a lawyer and probably clueless about US Law. Considering I have been to telecom standards meetings with the very people that created and enforce these laws, with no deception about who they are or what they were doing, your comments appear to be nonsense. Mike At 08:58 AM 3/27/2003 -0600, Jim Fleming wrote: >http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/working-groups/ipr-wg/current/msg01004.htm l >From: bruce@perens.com (Bruce Perens) >"I just spent two years at W3C solving this very problem. At the table >were many of the same folks on this WG, except there they didn't hide >the fact that they were representing their employers." >==== > >You may be missing two key points... > >1. Many of the I* society participants are funded directly or indirectly >by the U.S. Government. > >2. It is against the U.S. Federal laws for federally funded people to work >on telecommunication protocols. > >That forces people to lie. Once they learn to lie, it becomes a big game. >They then move >that game to their non-profit, corporate boards, where they are >"Directors" but tell people >that they stand in the hallway at meetings, and therefore are not >involved. In summary, they >(the I* society liars) have spent years gaming every U.S. funded system. >You are their prey. > > >Jim Fleming >http://www.IPv8.info