At 11:44 AM 3/18/02 +0000, Paul Robinson wrote: >However, I remember occasions when reading a >draft and thinking to myself 'this is a *really* bad idea to implement' and >realising that the only way I was going to get heard was to get to the next >meetings. ... I must challenge this assertion -- if you have a cogent argument why something is a bad idea, and present it to the working group and/or as a last-call comment, I believe it really does get heard. Of course, not everyone will agree on what constitutes a cogent argument, because different folks have different goals -- that's when it becomes important to _listen_ to the responses as well as present your argument. I don't deny that it helps to attend meetings -- if mainly because it helps one to get a broader understanding of the issues -- but unlike just about any other technical design committee I've experience of it's really not essential to participate in person. Indeed, in my experience, the IETF meetings are not really the place to get your argument *heard*. I think they are most useful for testing new ideas. If there's an important aspect of this cost-of-meetings debate, I think it's to keep us all mindful that meeting attendance should not be seen as necessary to get some work advanced or improved. >In addition, I still find it amazing that people are justifying costs due to >the number of breakfasts and cookies being served. The word 'ludicrous' is >overused on this list, but I think I've found a situation it applies to - >please, ask yourself whether the cookies are really needed. :-) I've wondered about this, and I think that they're probably fairly economical for the delegates: at IETF meetings, I typically skip hotel breakfasts and use the breakfast buffet for my morning's fuel. Then there are coffees that would otherwise be purchased - these things soon mount up at hotel prices. And more importantly, it means that folks are not forced to choose between useful discussion and wandering off to find food and drink. Finally, there's a matter of logistics -- IETF meetings typically overrun the available lunch facilities (lunches not being provided in the package); I assert that laying out a buffet is a more efficient way of feeding and watering the numbers involved. #g ------------------- Graham Klyne <GK@NineByNine.org>